Red Hood and the Outlaws #18 Preview / Discussion (Spoilers)

[G-Potion]

On some level it brings back those drifting theories about either Jason having immortality coming out of the pit or wether or not he needs repeated dips to keep the life. It's a pretty good theme to keep between the Outlaws definitely.

That would be a great addition to the lasting effect of the pit, and would be heavy enough to sit on his mind while he refuses to acknowledge it. If you remember the Future's End issue, he said something about the common people not knowing the "joy" of being immortal. I guess there's room to take it literally.

[G-Potion]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but was Faye's twist scene about that she was fine all along or was there the implication Jason found a planted letter? "Compatriots" in the wording threw me off and for a moment I thought this was Bizarro's attempt to keep Jason from talking with Faye as she clearly was the one who asked Jason to come over.

I do believe that Bizarro planted the letter and he had Faye trapped inside that bottle.

[G-Potion]

By the way, according to a few on tumblr, Rebirth RHATO is dead now because Lobdell dares to mention the All Caste smh.

[kiwiliko]

I do believe that Bizarro planted the letter and he had Faye trapped inside that bottle.

OHhhh kay thanks! That makes a lot more sense for that scene, I was debating over wether or not that was suppose to be a normal reflection off the bottle surface or more since a realistic reflection would've been the pup pup sitting next to it.

[G-Potion]

I can say that the devotion Bizarro has for Jason has reached scary level now. He really took care of Faye like he said he would a few issues back.

[RedBird]

By the way, according to a few on tumblr, Rebirth RHATO is dead now because Lobdell dares to mention the All Caste smh.

Yeah but tumblr also thinks that Lobdell is to blame for the stupid face mask instead of you know. The artist. They also think everyone should be gay or die and in Jasons case that he should be latino cause thats the ethnicity of the week they want to fetishize. So.....I wouldnt worry about their opinion.

[kiwiliko]

That would be a great addition to the lasting effect of the pit, and would be heavy enough to sit on his mind while he refuses to acknowledge it. If you remember the Future's End issue, he said something about the common people not knowing the "joy" of being immortal. I guess there's room to take it literally.

It would be interesting to explore at least. I've seen others explore the idea of immortality in the Trinity as well considering Artemis/WW do have near immortal lifespans and the abilities of the Supers are just about invulnerable. Jason has background in the pit but I don't seen Bruce becoming anything outside of human anytime soon. The new JL movie even touches on that and with the size/timeline of the family pushing Bruce closer to his golden years it looks like more and more is being shown regarding the Bats and their very human mortalities.

[kiwiliko]

Yeah but tumblr also thinks that Lobdell is to blame for the stupid face mask instead of you know. The artist. They also think everyone should be gay or die and in Jasons case that he should be latino cause thats the ethnicity of the week they want to fetishize. So.....I wouldnt worry about their opinion.

I mean I do feel compared to the pretty solid first few arcs this issue is weaker in terms of pacing. There's a lot of new threads to juggle and introducing Creeper with a secret connection to Artemis could turn sour easily since the team isn't at a stable point and that's not always the best time to add in new characters.

But really, transitions have to happen between stories and I'm not surprised the first hint of something different will polarize opinions on tumblr. I don't even think anyone is truly that invested in not having the All Caste mentioned, it looks like just pulling at Lobdell for small things because next issue is the valentines one and there's some that are quite vocal about the teased ship.

Latino Jason because someone personally thinks he'd look cool speaking Spanish is great. Latino Jason because someone thinks latinos are poor and Jason came from poverty is ... less than great.

[okiedokiewo]

By the way, according to a few on tumblr, Rebirth RHATO is dead now because Lobdell dares to mention the All Caste smh.

I saw a few comments similar to that and felt sad that people were ready to drop the book over it. Comments along the line of him clinging to the New 52, but I don't feel he is? It's just a couple references. The plot has nothing to do with it.

[Aioros22]

Same here. I mean dont get me wrong, everything is clearly pointing to Jason being smarter than he is letting on and being aware of Bizarros changes, hence the interuption. But like I said her reaction just seemed much more...disturbed. Like she saw something horrible or frightening, rather than a dormant secret or thought. Its probably just the drama being amped for the sake of it, but damn I really would be morbidly curious to see more insight into Jasons resurrection.

Could be, our boy is full of surprises.



Would that entail that Bizarro merely thought she was about to voice Jason`s own suspitions or just like he`s done with Faye he`s being...overprotecting of Jason?

[Aioros22]

I saw a few comments similar to that and felt sad that people were ready to drop the book over it. Comments along the line of him clinging to the New 52, but I don't feel he is? It's just a couple references. The plot has nothing to do with it.

Like in every Forum format, there`s people with opinions and there`s people with dumb opinions.

[RedBird]

Latino Jason because someone personally thinks he'd look cool speaking Spanish is great. Latino Jason because someone thinks latinos are poor and Jason came from poverty is ... less than great.

Unfortunately its usually the latter rather than the former. And even the former is more shallow than an appreciation for the Spanish dialect.

Funny thing is, I was one of the first to have an interest in the idea for Jason being Latino back when the idea started and floated around tumblr for a few weeks.

But it basically became this.

Some tumblr peep: imagine if Jason was latino.

Me: Oh nice, now what would that mean for Jason? Well I mean it would be cool to see more latino characters in general and for one to have a role like Jasons as a non meta popular male character who is an anti hero. Even the fact that he has mainly duel pistols and a history with drugs and druglords which unfortunately usually are only reserved for latino characters who carry a negetive stereotypical image and are demonised or created as nothing but horrible caricatures, will not be thanks to Jasons well established long and meaningful history which presents his image as not just a shallow and stigmatised representation of a character but part of a an engaging back story that places him well into the batman mythos already. Jason as he is would be quite unique as a latino character with his well established fanbase and background as a core batfam charact...

Some tumblr peep: I want him latino cause then he can say sexy spanish words! and will always eat spicy food!

Like. Yeah nevermind. The thought still intrigues me, and fanart is always nice, but I dont trust tumblrs perspective on the matter, which as I mentioned almost always fetishizes the ethnicity into their most stereotypical forms rather than wanting diversity and understanding what said diversity could mean for poc characters and representation in general.

[Aioros22]

Like, good ideas can float but it still takes a writer to execute them properly.

[RedBird]

I saw a few comments similar to that and felt sad that people were ready to drop the book over it. Comments along the line of him clinging to the New 52, but I don't feel he is? It's just a couple references. The plot has nothing to do with it.

Eh, what can you do, books can be picked up and put down at the drop of a hat, though dont pay it much credence, the crowd thats already put off dont seem that large in the grand scheme of things. Its not any loss from them that Im worried about as much as this books lack of advertising, which if I may ask, has anyone seen any change in that? I havent.

Like, good ideas can float but it still takes a writer to execute them properly.

Guess so man. But the fact that its taken so seriously without any actual serious thought into the concept is what makes me say. Yeah no. Enjoy the concept. Just dont listen to THAT particular angry crowd.

[kiwiliko]

Unfortunately its usually the latter rather than the former. And even the former is more shallow than an appreciation for the Spanish dialect.

Funny thing is, I was one of the first to have an interest in the idea for Jason being Latino back when the idea started and floated around tumblr for a few weeks.

But it basically became this.

Some tumblr peep: imagine if Jason was latino.

Me: Oh nice, now what would that mean for Jason? Well I mean it would be cool to see more latino characters in general and for one to have a role like Jasons as a non meta popular male character who is an anti hero. Even the fact that he has mainly duel pistols and a history with drugs and druglords which unfortunately usually are only reserved for latino characters who carry a negetive stereotypical image and are demonised or created as nothing but horrible caricatures, will not be thanks to the Jasons well established long and meaningful history which presents his image as not just a shallow and stigmatised representation of a character but part of a an engaging back story that places him well into the batman mythos already. Jason as he is would be quite unique as a latino character with his well established fanbase and background as a core batfam charact...

Some tumblr peep: I want him latino cause then he can say sexy spanish words! and will always eat spicy food!

Like. Yeah nevermind. The thought still intrigues me, and fanart is always nice, but I dont trust tumblrs perspective on the matter, which as I mentioned almost always fetishizes the ethnicity into their most stereotypical forms rather than wanting diversity and understanding what said diversity could mean for poc characters and representation in general.

My general take on the appeal for other fans seeing him speaking Spanish has usually been that they see it as an extension of Jason's language abilities. The lipreading and his fluency for German at early ages certainly implies he had a pretty decent affinity for it and good on them for finally covering some of those less flashy looking abilities because language should be absolutely essential for the crosscountry work vigilantes do and runs a lot deeper than just knowing how to translate words.

I do get what you mean by unfortunate fetishizing though, there is fanwork I've stumbled on for Dick and Tim that seems to hit an uncanny valley to me where they take on roles as the softie pure woobie or are heavily placed in victimizing situations for other characters to fuss over. There's absolutely nothing done wrong because interpretations vary between individuals, representation is good to see in media and having an interactive fandom gives a series a good chance to take off but definitely there are certain patterns that get uncomfortable. I'm not likely to stumble on as much fanart of Jason in a dress with heels as I am Tim and I think it has a lot to do with at least some amount of internal stereotyping we all have(body types associated to gender in this case)

It's not strictly a bad thing that internal bias exists and I like the point you make on what it means to explore Jason if he were latino but I would also prefer to give benefit of doubt if someone really does just want to fanart Latino Jason cooking spicy food.

The only one recently I remember that was really discomforting was stumbling on someone's list of ideas of illegal immigrant latino Jason getting deported and legal citizen Tim needing to step in so fair enough, to the best of my knowledge tumblr seems to be a place that prefers to reject this kind of bias but isn't always the best at executing it.