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  1. #16
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomServofan View Post
    Indeed and is the message of the film is that the narrator grew up and learned to have a balance to move on with his life and he got rid of him?
    Yea i think so. The movie to me was about extremes and conformity. The narrator starts off as the ultimate conformist Sheep, but later he morphs into this ideal cool, anti- everything guy he envisoned in his head. And at the end he thanks tyler before killing him. You can say they merged to someone with some balance or you can say the Narrartor found himself instead of being what he thought other people wanted him to be which was either a sheep or a an anti-everything anarchist

  2. #17
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    I generally regard anyone who regards Tyler Durden as a hero as one of 'those' kind of people that also think Rorshach is a hero.

  3. #18
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjowski View Post
    I generally regard anyone who regards Tyler Durden as a hero as one of 'those' kind of people that also think Rorshach is a hero.
    Ive never read the book but Rorshach from the movie might be a bit extreme but i didnt see him as a bad guy. He was just unable to exept any grey area. Was he worse in the book? Ive always wanted to read it because you hear how great it is but ive never gotten around to it

  4. #19
    Mighty Member Mr. Mastermind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    Ive never read the book but Rorshach from the movie might be a bit extreme but i didnt see him as a bad guy. He was just unable to exept any grey area. Was he worse in the book? Ive always wanted to read it because you hear how great it is but ive never gotten around to it
    Rorschach is Moore parodying antiheroes like Batman and Punisher by saying that in the real world they’d be psychopathic, paranoid men of the far right. Which is why he’s Ted Cruz’a favourite superhero.

    Not sure if Snyder thought that about him when making the movie.

    As for Durden, I wouldn’t say he’s a good guy in the strictest sense. But he’s more of a reaction against consumerism in the form of aggressive masculinity than a real villain. It condemns both as being bad. But at least he had some good praxis at the end.
    Last edited by Mr. Mastermind; 01-07-2018 at 07:25 PM.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Mastermind View Post
    Rorschach is Moore parodying antiheroes like Batman and Punisher by saying that in the real world they’d be psychopathic, paranoid men of the far right. Which is why he’s Ted Cruz’a favourite superhero.

    Not sure if Snyder thought that about him when making the movie.

    As for Durden, I wouldn’t say he’s a good guy in the strictest sense. But he’s more of a reaction against consumerism in the form of aggressive masculinity than a real villain. It condemns both as being bad. But at least he had some good praxis at the end.
    IIRC, Rorschach was a logical extreme of the Ayn Rand flavored Question, not a parody of Batman or Punisher. Considering him a hero isn't too far fetched, as the only people he menaced were criminals (though it should be noted, some were innocent)

  6. #21
    Mighty Member Mr. Mastermind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    IIRC, Rorschach was a logical extreme of the Ayn Rand flavored Question, not a parody of Batman or Punisher. Considering him a hero isn't too far fetched, as the only people he menaced were criminals (though it should be noted, some were innocent)
    But Moore intended him as an attack on Randian type characters. Sort of like how Tyler Durden is an attack on the ultra masculine nature of unhappy men under neoliberalism. Fight Club predicted 4chan and The_Donald.

  7. #22
    Peter Scott/Scott Peter SpiderClops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    Ive never read the book but Rorshach from the movie might be a bit extreme but i didnt see him as a bad guy. He was just unable to exept any grey area. Was he worse in the book? Ive always wanted to read it because you hear how great it is but ive never gotten around to it
    I've never read the comic. But I've heard that in that, Rorschach was a misogynist, homophobe and idealized The Comedian of all people. It's not like he's much better in the movie, he's still an absolute asshole who thinks he's better than everyone, but at least he didn't idealized The Comedian.
    “Indifference and neglect often do much more damage than outright dislike.”
    -Albus Percival Wulfric Brian Dumbledore, Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix

  8. #23
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiderClops View Post
    I've never read the comic. But I've heard that in that, Rorschach was a misogynist, homophobe and idealized The Comedian of all people. It's not like he's much better in the movie, he's still an absolute asshole who thinks he's better than everyone, but at least he didn't idealized The Comedian.
    Yea hes a dick to everyone and only Owlman will put up with him but hes an extreme version of a Conservative man whos unwilling to compromise at all. Definetly not my first choice for a hero but he wasnt a villian at all in the movie just a dick who saw in black and white no grey allowed. Comedian was 100x worse then him and i wouldnt call him a villian either. Definetly a bad man but not a villian. But then again that depends if you were on the recieveing end of the horrible shit he did.
    Last edited by Midvillian1322; 01-07-2018 at 10:56 PM.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    Yea hes a dick to everyone and only Owlman will put up with him but hes an extreme version of a Conservative man whos unwilling to compromise at all. Definetly not my first choice for a hero but he wasnt a villian at all in the movie just a dick who saw in black and white no grey allowed. Comedian was 100x worse then him and i wouldnt call him a villian either. Definetly a bad man but not a villian. But then again that depends if you were on the recieveing end of the horrible shit he did.
    Comedian tried to rape his teammate and killed a woman pregnant with his child. I'd call him a villain.

  10. #25
    King of Wakanda Midvillian1322's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Cool Thatguy View Post
    Comedian tried to rape his teammate and killed a woman pregnant with his child. I'd call him a villain.
    Id call him a bad man in the worst way but he wasnt the antagonist in anyway. Unless the movie had been about Silk Spectre(?i think thats her name) or the women in Vietnam. But given the movie structure Ozymendias(? Again not 100 on that name) was the Villian. Just not a traditional one
    Last edited by Midvillian1322; 01-08-2018 at 01:07 PM.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    Id call him a bad man in the worst way but he wasnt the antagonist in anyway. Unless the movie had been about Silk Spectre(?i think thats her name) or the women in Vietnam. But given the movie structure Ozymendias(? Again not 100 on that name) was the Villian. Just not a traditional one
    If only because he had no agenda, in the movie itself.

    In terms of villainous protagonists getting appreciation they don't deserve, I'd put Walter White or Vic Mackey on the list instead of most of the Watchmen cast

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Midvillian1322 View Post
    Ive never read the book but Rorshach from the movie might be a bit extreme but i didnt see him as a bad guy. He was just unable to exept any grey area. Was he worse in the book? Ive always wanted to read it because you hear how great it is but ive never gotten around to it
    Rorch ( and the book in general ) was supposed to be satire. He was way more than just a dickish conservative. He didn't bathe. It was implied that he didn't like women. He couldn't have normal conversation with most people. His way of doing detective work was to randomly start breaking the fingers of an innocent man in a bar. He had already had at least one nervous breakdown and his grasp on reality was tenuous at best.

    You were supposed to pity the guy, you weren't supposed to admire him.

  13. #28
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    While I enjoyed the movie for what it was, I kinda felt that Tyler was a sheltered person's fantasy of a "rebel" ( which of course is the point). But since his character allowed for the same vicarious thrills that an unironic anti-hero would have, perhaps some fans missed the larger point.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ed2962 View Post
    While I enjoyed the movie for what it was, I kinda felt that Tyler was a sheltered person's fantasy of a "rebel" ( which of course is the point). But since his character allowed for the same vicarious thrills that an unironic anti-hero would have, perhaps some fans missed the larger point.
    But the narrator grew up at the end and that was the point right?

  15. #30
    Ultimate Member numberthirty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TomServofan View Post
    But the narrator grew up at the end and that was the point right?
    Probably not. That's allowing for that you are going with the simplest possible version of what is happening(the premise this thread revolves around) possible.

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