Batman Beyond As A Response To The Dark Knight Returns

[NK1988]

So recently I've been reading a lot of discussions on "what superheroes mean" and that's something I find endlessly fascinating. My favorite comics all deal with this topic. The success of Watchmen and more relevantly The Dark Knight Returns show that a lot of people like this, too.

Now I'm sure you all have seen the arguments "superheroes are inherently authoritarian, even fascist." I myself used to buy into it until somebody I know who is much more versed in comic books than I am pointed out how ridiculous such a generalization is. There are so many different types of superheroes and then you can further break those individual heroes down based on writer, the time they were written, etc.. I'm sure you all are totally aware that Batman in particular is one of the most diversely interpreted comic book figures of all time. There are so many different ways to read him.

In this vain, I found this amazing AV Club article on the enduring legacy of TDKR while also reviewing Batman vs. Superman: Dawn of Justice:
https://aux.avclub.com/the-dark-knig...w-o-1798246206

It has several different people offering their perspectives which is great because as I just went over, Batman means different things to different people. I recommend reading the whole thing if you haven't but just to single out the most relevant bit:

What’s always struck me about Batman isn’t actually that he’s alone or dour or even particularly dark, it’s that the character is founded not on fear, but hope. He wants to scare criminals into not doing crime anymore, but Batman is at the heart of things a scared little boy, frozen in time, hoping desperately that he can change things for the better so no one has to suffer the way he has. More so than many other comic book characters, Batman builds himself a family, a supporting cast that happily and readily takes on his mission to cure his city of violence by not stooping to the same level as everyone else. While Miller does keep the character’s distaste for guns, he wallows in orgiastic violence, forgetting that Batman is first and foremost the world’s greatest detective, not the world’s greatest brawler. Arkham Asylum exists and continues to be populated because Batman and his Bat-fam believe that there is a chance for everyone to be redeemed, but Miller is stuck obsessively insisting that there is no cure for mental illness or crime (perhaps that they’re one in the same), and that the only way to succeed is for Batman to live forever. I don’t think Batman himself would believe that, on his good days.

Now, I know more about Batman adaptations than comics When discussing "the meaning of Batman" my absolute favorite Batman adaptation naturally came to mind. Batman Beyond is a great show and I think Return of the Joker has a good case for being at least Top 3 best Batman films of all time. And the more I thought about BB and TDKR, the more I felt like it's almost a counterargument against TDKR's cynicism.

DCAU Bruce Wayne hasn't had it any easier than other versions. I wrote this a long time after binge watching DCAU stuff:

-His parnets are killed
-He finds happiness and considers breaking his vow to his parents so he can be with the woman he loves.
-The woman he loves leaves him and he descends even further into despair.
-He flirts with various other woman but all are evil or leave him.
-Tim is tortured into insanity
-Dick, Barbara and Tim all leave him.
-Alfred dies.
-He spends decades alone fighting crime until his body simply can't handle it and he nearly shoots someone to save his own life.
-He resolves never to fight crime again and lives all alone in his mansion for several more years.

Now, it paints a rather bleak picture and when you just look at Mask of the Phantasm or whatever you might even agree it's cynical and hopeless.

But the real story of Batman - of Bruce Wayne - doesn't end where I left off back then. There's still much more that happens to Bruce after that and this is where I feel BB is almost a refutation of TDKR.

Sure Bruce is old and alone, but he doesn't stay that way. Sure Gotham still has crime but it doesn't have to stay that way. Through Terry Bruce reconnects with his humanity, coming back to take an active role in his company, reconnecting with Barbara and Tim, and so-on. Whereas both TDKR and BB Bruce were just awaiting the inevitable peace of the grave at the start of their stories, TDKR Bruce is drawn back into fighting an endless war, an external war that reflects the internal one within. Beyond's Bruce finds meaning in life, not through violence against evil, but helping good people.

A more direct comparison for me is TDKR's Two-Face vs. Beyond's Mr. Freeze. They both end up tragically but for wildly different reasons. Freeze had hope for redemption and Terry was right to believe in that redemption. He was screwed over by forces out of his control. TDKR Dent though is just irreparably damaged and any hopes to help him are delusional. (probably even selfish as Bruce wanted to "help" Harvey because he needed to believe Harvey could change because then he himself could hope to change. But there was no hope for either of them)

The interviewee says Bruce wouldn't think Batman needs to be around forever on his good days. I slightly disagree. Bruce thinks Batman needs to be there to help Gotham but he's okay if he, Bruce Wayne, isn't there to help Gotham.


Terry: Sorry. Don't mean to worry you.
Bruce: I was worried about Gotham. If Batman's not around...
Terry: I've got it covered. Always.

Terry in Batman Beyond brings light to Bruce's life. In The Dark Knight Returns he drowns in darkness.


This is not my criticizing or praising one work over the other. Batman can be anything you want him to be and that's why he's great.

Maybe I'm also reaching here and showing my ignorance to the plethora of Bat material out there. Maybe there's a better counter to TDKR out there. I'm just trying to draw on what I know and love.

What do you all think?

[Hizashi]

I love Batman Beyond and think it could work as an answer to TDKR. I enjoy Terry, and while i had issues with the canon (Babs and Bruce? No), the show works very well. I've enjoyed the current Batman Beyond ongoing, it's just a shame that they lost Chang.

[TomServofan]

Yup a small bit of it but mostly Blade Runner, Akira, Ghost in the Shell and others were the inspiration to the show.