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  1. #1
    Legendary Member daBronzeBomma's Avatar
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    Default Marvel's Celestials

    Marvel's cosmic hierarchy is much more formally established than DC's. Their levels are much easier for me to understand.

    Except for the Celestials.

    They are a mystery to me in terms of power. Where do they rank in the MU? How many Celestials are there? Can a single Celestial beat Galactus? Can the whole Host?

    Where on the rumbles food chain do they belong?

    How would a single Celestial fare against:

    - Thanos
    - Odin
    - Mephisto
    - Dormammu
    - Galactus

    And how would the whole Host of Celestials do against

    - Mephisto
    - Dormammu
    - Galactus
    - Death
    - Eternity

    How far up the food chain before anyone stops them cold, if at all?

  2. #2

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    Basically a single Celestial can whomp all over everyone on that list aside from Galactus. Dormammu could maaaybe do some sort of trickery with prep but a straight fight, he is boned.

    Galactus is... maybe worth 3 Celestials when at near full power? He can beat them 1 v 1 with trouble but a win is a win. He could maybe engage 2 or 3 at his limit.

    The host beats even him though


    Edit: I didn't see the 2nd scenario had different opponents. Eternity is probably a bit above the host... Ehh. I've always had trouble pegging him and Death. Supposedly they are peers of Galactus when he is at FULL strength. So.
    Last edited by The Arbiter; 01-07-2018 at 02:27 PM.
    "So full of hate were our eyes
    That none of us could see
    Our war would yield countless dead
    But never victory
    So let us cast arms aside
    And like discard our wrath
    Thou, in faith, will keep us safe
    Whilst we find the path"

    -The Covenant Writ of Union

  3. #3
    Astonishing Member The Chou Lives's Avatar
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    Default

    Also not all celestial are equal.

  4. #4
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daBronzeBomma View Post
    - Dormammu
    If you believe Furnace Face, he's quite capable of dealing with the Celestials (I kid you not: Dr. Strange, Sorcerer Supreme #2).

    .....

    If you believe him.

    The Dorm has (with good reason) ego out the yin-yang.

    Personally, I think it's one of the few times his bragging is nothing but hot air (literally as well, but then his breath is always pretty scorching).
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers."
    - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move."
    - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman."
    - Pendaran

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    If you believe Furnace Face, he's quite capable of dealing with the Celestials (I kid you not: Dr. Strange, Sorcerer Supreme #2).

    .....

    If you believe him.

    The Dorm has (with good reason) ego out the yin-yang.

    Personally, I think it's one of the few times his bragging is nothing but hot air (literally as well, but then his breath is always pretty scorching).
    To be fair to The Dorm, I think he /technically/ has more impressive feats than any Celestial. Corrupting entire dimensions/universes is pretty up there. Only problem is that doing that sort of thing takes some prep and ritual magic.

    Oddly, despite having slightly less oomph than say Odin, I believe Dorm has a better chance at beating a Celestial in a comic scenario if he were given some time to think.

    In a straight arena fight, he screwed though :P
    "So full of hate were our eyes
    That none of us could see
    Our war would yield countless dead
    But never victory
    So let us cast arms aside
    And like discard our wrath
    Thou, in faith, will keep us safe
    Whilst we find the path"

    -The Covenant Writ of Union

  6. #6
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    I'm not saying it's impossible. Part of the business of warping dimensions involves him messing with the laws of reality in said dimensions. It's possible that him mucking around with such things will, on some level, nerf all hell out of Celestials, deprive them of their powers, whatever.

    I have no idea.

    But it shouldn't be taken as 'Furnace Face is more powerful than Celestials', because he isn't. Barring shenanigans like the universal rug being pulled out from under them (if that even works), they'd kick him around like a beachball.
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers."
    - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move."
    - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman."
    - Pendaran

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    I'm not saying it's impossible. Part of the business of warping dimensions involves him messing with the laws of reality in said dimensions. It's possible that him mucking around with such things will, on some level, nerf all hell out of Celestials, deprive them of their powers, whatever.

    I have no idea.

    But it shouldn't be taken as 'Furnace Face is more powerful than Celestials', because he isn't. Barring shenanigans like the universal rug being pulled out from under them (if that even works), they'd kick him around like a beachball.
    Yeah, pretty much exactly this.
    "So full of hate were our eyes
    That none of us could see
    Our war would yield countless dead
    But never victory
    So let us cast arms aside
    And like discard our wrath
    Thou, in faith, will keep us safe
    Whilst we find the path"

    -The Covenant Writ of Union

  8. #8
    Legendary Member daBronzeBomma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Chou Lives View Post
    Also not all celestial are equal.
    Interesting.

    Three and half questions:

    How many Celestials are there?

    How big is the gap between the weakest Celestial and the strongest Celestial?

    Did the Host ever interact with IG Thanos or PR Beyonder? And if so, how did they rate?

  9. #9
    Astonishing Member Captain Morgan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharpandpointies View Post
    I'm not saying it's impossible. Part of the business of warping dimensions involves him messing with the laws of reality in said dimensions. It's possible that him mucking around with such things will, on some level, nerf all hell out of Celestials, deprive them of their powers, whatever.

    I have no idea.

    But it shouldn't be taken as 'Furnace Face is more powerful than Celestials', because he isn't. Barring shenanigans like the universal rug being pulled out from under them (if that even works), they'd kick him around like a beachball.
    Eh... Celestials can bounce between different universes and retain their power, and we saw how much good controlling your own realm did for Mephisto against Galactus.

    I could get behind some ritual stuff taking out a Celestial, but unless Dorm has some Prince Who Is a Thousand style feats I'm skeptical of him warping a dimension so a Celestial can't use their powers there.

  10. #10
    the devil's reject choptop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    Basically a single Celestial can whomp all over everyone on that list aside from Galactus. Dormammu could maaaybe do some sort of trickery with prep but a straight fight, he is boned.

    Galactus is... maybe worth 3 Celestials when at near full power? He can beat them 1 v 1 with trouble but a win is a win. He could maybe engage 2 or 3 at his limit.

    The host beats even him though


    Edit: I didn't see the 2nd scenario had different opponents. Eternity is probably a bit above the host... Ehh. I've always had trouble pegging him and Death. Supposedly they are peers of Galactus when he is at FULL strength. So.
    Even Odin? Didn't he shake the universe powering up or something?

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by daBronzeBomma View Post
    Interesting.

    Three and half questions:

    How many Celestials are there?

    How big is the gap between the weakest Celestial and the strongest Celestial?

    Did the Host ever interact with IG Thanos or PR Beyonder? And if so, how did they rate?
    Hard to say how many. Not a huge number. More than 10, likely less than 100. But its uncertain. They breed by incubating in the cores of planets. Fun fact, Galactus actually eats these planets with gestating celestial as a form of culling the population so they don't go rampant.

    The gap is probably not huge. Even a "weak" celestial is a potent reality warper. Probably the really tough guys (Arishem or Exitar, maybe Dreaming Celestial) are... 3x? 5x as powerful as the weak? Hard to say.

    Celestials are more or less treated like garbage against a Thanos era IG or PR Beyonder. An IG user (probably thanos, can't remember) actually blew up a celestial. Galactus observed the event like "whoa. those dudes can die?" lol

    Quote Originally Posted by choptop View Post
    Even Odin? Didn't he shake the universe powering up or something?
    Yeah, especially Odin. Odins first encounter with a celestial was disastrous. He was channeling extra power from Zeus and Vishnu and tossed a bolt at Arishem. Didn't do a thing. Celestial turned around and threatened to destroy the various skyfather gateways to their respective realms. So Odin surrendered.

    Fast forward 1000 years, Odin has forged the Destroyer Armor and has his Odinsword. He (and every other Asgardian soul) crammed into the Destroyer as it swelled up to several thousand feet in height. He chops a celestial arm off, which was cool (ultimately useless, dude just regenerate it) but then was literally turned into molten slag by the rest of them.
    "So full of hate were our eyes
    That none of us could see
    Our war would yield countless dead
    But never victory
    So let us cast arms aside
    And like discard our wrath
    Thou, in faith, will keep us safe
    Whilst we find the path"

    -The Covenant Writ of Union

  12. #12
    The Weeping Mod Sharpandpointies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daBronzeBomma View Post
    Did the Host ever interact with IG Thanos or PR Beyonder? And if so, how did they rate?
    The Beyonder beat up the Celestials - explicitly holding back - to show off. He treats them like dirt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Morgan View Post
    Eh... Celestials can bounce between different universes and retain their power, and we saw how much good controlling your own realm did for Mephisto against Galactus.

    I could get behind some ritual stuff taking out a Celestial, but unless Dorm has some Prince Who Is a Thousand style feats I'm skeptical of him warping a dimension so a Celestial can't use their powers there.
    Galactus is kind of a different beast than the Celestials. And I figure it's weird that Furnace Face figures he can take over the Earth dimension, unless the Celestials actually don't give two craps.

    I can't really see the Dorm's rituals being capable of wiping out more than one Celestial at a time, which means he maybe gets one and then has about five more in his face. Not a good situation.

    Barring the whole 'I have changed the rules' ritual, I really have problems seeing how he would manage, and it's pretty clear-cut that he IS a threat to the entire Earth Dimension, not just Planet Earth.

    Basically it boils down to 'Me not sure, me see contradictions, nothing new to comics'.

    ...also, nice reference. ^_^
    Why Are We Here?, by Pendaran

    "...the Myths Transformed version of the legendarium, in which the Moon is Melkor's attempt to make his own Arda with blackjack and hookers."
    - Estrecca

    "...dropping an orca whale made of fire on your enemies is a pretty strong opening move."
    - Nik Hasta

    "[Kent] Nelson was nearly invariably presented as the guy who, barring the Spectre, made everyone else generally gasp and go "Doctor Fate don't shiv, he balls nasty.", even Superman."
    - Pendaran

  13. #13
    New and Improved hulahulk's Avatar
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    During Infinity Gauntlet #5, the Celestials attacked Thanos with everything they had and it didn't do squat. They hurled planets and massive amounts of cosmic energies at him. He adjusted immediately.
    Original join date: sometime in 2002

  14. #14
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    The Beyonder beat up the Celestials - explicitly holding back - to show off. He treats them like dirt.
    Beyonder treats everyone like dirt.

    The guy killed Death by poisoning her.

    Hard to say how many. Not a huge number. More than 10, likely less than 100. But its uncertain. They breed by incubating in the cores of planets. Fun fact, Galactus actually eats these planets with gestating celestial as a form of culling the population so they don't go rampant.
    There's at least 20 NAMED Celestials.

  15. #15
    Extraordinary Member Pendaran's Avatar
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    And I figure it's weird that Furnace Face figures he can take over the Earth dimension, unless the Celestials actually don't give two craps.
    The guy has thought he can roll Eternity, to be fair.

    Anyway, this isn't that great a standard, the Earth dimension is full of things that could roll Dormammu (including Galactus really) that he doesn't factor in, that's just comics.

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