Bullseye vs Deadshot vs Green Arrow vs Hawkeye

[ColonelGM]

616 Lester vs New 52 Floyd vs 616 Clint vs New 52 Oliver
Who Wins?

[Sharpandpointies]

Barring any of the other guys having new bullet-time speed or special armor, Bullseye kills them all whilst frantically dodging and hoping not to get blown up by any explosive arrows that actually manage to fly in his direction.

[Captain Morgan]

We aren't sporting Bullseye bullet timer speed, are we?

[Sharpandpointies]

We aren't sporting Bullseye bullet timer speed, are we?

No (note the 'frantically dodging' part), but I don't think the others have what it takes to get him without that.

[The Dork Knight]

Realistically this is Deadshot's fight to lose since he'll be the only one using a gun (it's usually not part of Bullseye's standard gear) and I don't really see how any of these guys have a significant reaction speed advantage over the other

[Sharpandpointies]

Realistically this is Deadshot's fight to lose since he'll be the only one using a gun (it's usually not part of Bullseye's standard gear) and I don't really see how any of these guys have a significant reaction speed advantage over the other

Guns aren't part of Bullseye's standard gear? I have memories of his costume having a holster and him carrying a pistol.

If that's not the case these days, fair enough, better odds for Deadshot.

[Shellhead]

I think the Bullseye costume had a holster and utility belt early on, but both were eventually discarded during the Miller run on Daredevil.

This image seems apt:

[Sharpandpointies]

Being fair, Bullseye draws and throws **** (sometimes literally) with unbelievable speed, power and accuracy, and he aim-dodges like a pro. I realize Deadshot has that whole 'never misses' thing going on, but if we're sporting CIS to him, he has that death wish that has allowed Batman, David Cain, and others to dodge him.

Not sure if the Nu52 dude has that death wish, though.

In any case, I don't really feel this is a cut-and-dried Deadshot win, I just feel that if we take away Lester's pistol it could go either way.

The archers get killed at the start regardless.

[The Dork Knight]

It's not that he doesn't use guns, but it's not common for him and he usually makes a big deal out of using them like when he decided to "get serious" vs Matt and killed a Karen in Guardian devil. Back in the Miller days he did use to carry a gun more often than not, these days he doesn't seem to use them much unless it's a long distance assassination attempt or something (even then he's used other stuff occasionally) or he just happens to get access to them in a fight

Bullseye's thrown stuff has also been dodged or reacted to, by people lower down the speed ladder than Daredevil. I'd say post crisis Lawton is at least as fast on the draw and his projectiles measurably faster, giving him the edge but in any case this is new 52 Lawton so idk

[Captain Morgan]

Being fair, Bullseye draws and throws **** (sometimes literally) with unbelievable speed, power and accuracy, and he aim-dodges like a pro. I realize Deadshot has that whole 'never misses' thing going on, but if we're sporting CIS to him, he has that death wish that has allowed Batman, David Cain, and others to dodge him.

Not sure if the Nu52 dude has that death wish, though.

In any case, I don't really feel this is a cut-and-dried Deadshot win, I just feel that if we take away Lester's pistol it could go either way.

The archers get killed at the start regardless.

My take away from my recent CIS thread is that we don't use stuff like the death wish in the arena.

[Sharpandpointies]

...what?

Well, I'm confused. Things change, I suppose.

[Captain Morgan]

...what?

Well, I'm confused. Things change, I suppose.

Maybe we do? I also don't think it was mod ruled. The specific example I used was arrogance, not a death wish, but it strikes me as a pretty similar idea.

The thread, if you are curious.

[Sharpandpointies]

Arrogance is a little different. An arrogant character, pressed to the wall, is going to fight to the best they can. They maybe won't believe they can lose, or that 'this is happening to me!', but it's not a mental disorder or something that prevents them from operating at full capacity.

Death wish is a genuine mental issue that actively hampers the person's combat performance, constantly. They don't have a choice, and it has cost them in the past. Examples for Lawton, here, include him supposedly having perfect aim and yet people like Batman aim-dodge him when he has them right in his sights. It's later revealed that he has a subconscious death wish that is costing him these fights, or somesuch. He doesn't have a choice, it's a subconscious thing.

Yeah, it's splitting hairs, but we rule that bloodlust will allow someone to fight to the best of their capabilities (covering personality stuff like arrogance, meek nature, cowardice, pacifist, 'won't take a life', whatever), EXCEPTING CIS. "refers to any natural mental limitations that characters impose upon themselves and reduce their ability to use their own skills and powers effectively."

And on the old board, insanity was ruled as being part of CIS (if it degraded combat capability). In fact, lack of experience was also ruled as part of CIS (the Watcher ruled on that one), but the specific example had to do with children, so it made perfect sense.

Due to bloodlust, Dormammu won't stop to gloat in the arena. Due to bloodlust, the Cowardly Lion will still fight to the best of their capacity. But bloodlust won't make the Rhino smarter, it won't make a five year-old suddenly capable of using superpowers like a pro, and it won't take away a subconscious death-wish that actually is noted to hamper the character's abilities.

We can look to get a ruling on this board, but that's pretty much how it ran on the old one. ^_^

Edit: Also, you didn't link to the thread. :D

[Captain Morgan]

http://community.comicbookresources....e-vs-Bloodlust

Doh. There you go. What about cases like the Sentry then? We assume peal capacity for him, despite his mental illness being such that it not only costs him fights but occasionally stops him from even showing up to fights.

[Sharpandpointies]

http://community.comicbookresources....e-vs-Bloodlust

Doh. There you go. What about cases like the Sentry then? We assume peal capacity for him, despite his mental illness being such that it not only costs him fights but occasionally stops him from even showing up to fights.

Well, bring it up in a thread. I don't have enough knowledge on old Bob. I know Pendaran has noted that people can use his mental issues against him, telepathically, if they know what they're doing and are strong enough. Buuut...I'm not the one to ask about Sentry.

Thanks for the thread.