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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sundowhn View Post
    Yeah, I've read that before. I think I had the advantage, because I was unfamiliar with she and Brian both, when Excalibur started. I was introduced to them with the couple having suffered a major trauma -- the death of Brian's sister -- him falling into drink to drown his pain and her reacting to that with insecurity and clinging. Over the series, it seemed to me that she learned to be okay in her own skin and learned her value, apart from being a couple. At the end, she chose to marry him because she wanted to, not because she needed to.

    Which is a much more positive message.

    I never liked how Claremont basically bumped her off for New Excalibur. Lost, with no way of return, during House of M. I was happy that Paul Cornell brought her back on Captain Britain & MI13, and showed that it was her determination and shrewd mind which actually got her back into this universe.

    I miss 'Glorianna'.
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  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Sword is Drawn View Post
    Which is a much more positive message.

    I never liked how Claremont basically bumped her off for New Excalibur. Lost, with no way of return, during House of M. I was happy that Paul Cornell brought her back on Captain Britain & MI13, and showed that it was her determination and shrewd mind which actually got her back into this universe.

    I miss 'Glorianna'.
    You know one thing about Claremont I love and Hate?
    He had this amazing talent for evolving characters and making them grow naturally. Everything seemed to work. BUT then he'd take some weird ass turn and make the characters unrecognizable.
    Meggans Development from Naive, to "teenager" learning the world, to empathic vamp trying to please people, to her own woman.
    Psylocke, from a flighty fashion model to reluctant heroine, to a woman unwilling to be the victim anymore, to a determined heroine who cares for her team and grows into a leader, then sabotaged into a new character.
    Brian from this smart intelligent, kinda bashful idiot who just wants to do the right thing, to some angry ******* smashing stuff.

    Some of the characters have returned to form and more or less resemble their old personalities. Which is Pleasant.
    I do love baby Maggie, even though I hate her name. No non Tory Brit wrote this, that's for sure.

  3. #63
    Uncanny Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Good point, is she named after Prime Minister Thatcher?

    I don't suppose Guggs is a Simpsons fan? Would be a relief to hear the baby was named after that Maggie instead.
    Last edited by Digifiend; 01-11-2018 at 11:57 AM.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Factor View Post
    What a huge missed opportunity
    I mean, I didn't expect much from Guggenheim, but this was pretty terrible. Meggan and Brian have a kid and they only tell the X-men 3 months later? Not when she's pregnant? And no mention of Betsy at all?
    It's cute they sent the stork, but this kind of news would warrant a call, right?
    Everything felt so half-cooked. The writers wanted to sell the family vibe, but treated the birth so casually that the character interaction didn't ring true at all.
    This book made me once again question what the X-editors are supposed to be doing. They're obviously not worried about quality control or continuity consistency. Mistaking Rachel for Jean is all kinds of ironic since the whole point of the "Prestige" mess was to give Rachel her own "unique" identity.
    Heck, even the art was bad. It looked like one of those bad fill-ins from the Lobdell run, not a proper homage to 30 years of Excalibur
    Amen. This was embarrassing.

    - The major continuity error on page one. I've said it a hundred times, but the editors at Marvel are doing absolutely nothing these days.

    - A stork delivers the message? Really?

    - Why can the kid talk? How?! Why?! She's just smart. It's never explained. It doesn't matter. Great storytelling, guys.

    - The X-Men fly coach? That makes no sense. Why? To set up two pages that weren't funny at all? Again, it doesn't matter.

    - Brian Braddock's look. Oh my goodness -- NO.

    - Oh, look the heroes are clowning the silly villain again, and laugh at his incompetence. Never see that trope in a modern Marvel Comic these days.

    - Where is Brian's sister, Betsy? A single line explaining her absence would've went a long way. But whatever, right? It doesn't matter. Nothing matters.

    - The cringe worthy backup. They literally run INTO one life-threatening (and majorly cliche) superhero fight after another so an Aunt can pacify her annoying niece?!

    - If "STORMAZING" wasn't at the end of this, I would have quit reading at that point anyway.

    The only good thing about this abomination was the beautiful Alan Davis cover. I knew better than to be excited for this. I was hoping to read a serious story that expanded and truly built on what Claremont (or even Lobdell) had done with these characters. But instead we got shoddily told silly nonsense with errors and barely passable art. Marvel just doesn't have it anymore, which is why they're always playing the nostalgia card. It's all they've got.
    Last edited by SamGuthrie1977; 01-11-2018 at 12:59 PM.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Factor View Post
    What a huge missed opportunity
    I mean, I didn't expect much from Guggenheim, but this was pretty terrible. Meggan and Brian have a kid and they only tell the X-men 3 months later? Not when she's pregnant? And no mention of Betsy at all?
    It's cute they sent the stork, but this kind of news would warrant a call, right?
    Everything felt so half-cooked. The writers wanted to sell the family vibe, but treated the birth so casually that the character interaction didn't ring true at all.
    This book made me once again question what the X-editors are supposed to be doing. They're obviously not worried about quality control or continuity consistency. Mistaking Rachel for Jean is all kinds of ironic since the whole point of the "Prestige" mess was to give Rachel her own "unique" identity.
    Heck, even the art was bad. It looked like one of those bad fill-ins from the Lobdell run, not a proper homage to 30 years of Excalibur
    THANK YOU! I totally agree with you!!! I was so excited to find out about this annual! Excalibur was one of my favorite comics when I was younger, and Rachel is and has always been my favorite character! And then I read it and was like...WTF??? total letdown. 😣

  6. #66
    Omega Level Member WhitePhoenix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamGuthrie1977 View Post
    - The cringe worthy backup. They literally run INTO one life-threatening (and majorly cliche) superhero fight after another so an Aunt can pacify her annoying niece?!
    Yeah, that was so random and like why? Definitely not needed.

  7. #67
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamGuthrie1977 View Post

    - Why can the kid talk? How?! Why?! She's just smart. It's never explained. It doesn't matter. Great storytelling, guys.
    Without it being confirmed, I think its obvious she's a mutant. She even has the same ears as her mutant mother. Her advanced development is apart of her powerset

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamGuthrie1977 View Post
    Amen. This was embarrassing.

    - The major continuity error on page one. I've said it a hundred times, but the editors at Marvel are doing absolutely nothing these days.

    - A stork delivers the message? Really?

    - Why can the kid talk? How?! Why?! She's just smart. It's never explained. It doesn't matter. Great storytelling, guys.

    - The X-Men fly coach? That makes no sense. Why? To set up two pages that weren't funny at all? Again, it doesn't matter.

    - Brian Braddock's look. Oh my goodness -- NO.

    - Oh, look the heroes are clowning the silly villain again, and laugh at his incompetence. Never see that trope in a modern Marvel Comic these days.

    - Where is Brian's sister, Betsy? A single line explaining her absence would've went a long way. But whatever, right? It doesn't matter. Nothing matters.

    - The cringe worthy backup. They literally run INTO one life-threatening (and majorly cliche) superhero fight after another so an Aunt can pacify her annoying niece?!

    - If "STORMAZING" wasn't at the end of this, I would have quit reading at that point anyway.

    The only good thing about this abomination was the beautiful Alan Davis cover. I knew better than to be excited for this. I was hoping to read a serious story that expanded and truly built on what Claremont (or even Lobdell) had done with these characters. But instead we got shoddily told silly nonsense with errors and barely passable art. Marvel just doesn't have it anymore, which is why they're always playing the nostalgia card. It's all they've got.
    Meggans Hips though...

    Davis is why I fell in love with Psylocke lol.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Without it being confirmed, I think its obvious she's a mutant. She even has the same ears as her mutant mother. Her advanced development is apart of her powerset
    Yeah, that was my assumption too.

    But the reader shouldn't have to assume that. Most kids don't gain their mutant abilities until puberty or during a traumatic event. So why does this child have super intelligence/speech/whatever at birth? It doesn't matter, evidently. No effort put into the storytelling. The apathy from the creative team and editors exuded from every page. Phoning it in when Excalibur fans were genuinely excited about returning to the house Claremont built.

    If an editor was actually doing their job, they would suggest to the writers a simple one-liner by Meggan or Brian clarifying that the child was a special mutant. Or something. Anything.

    As it is, it makes no sense, and leaves the reader unsatisfied because it's cheap and lazy storytelling.
    Last edited by SamGuthrie1977; 01-11-2018 at 03:37 PM.

  10. #70
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    It made me mad when they were flying coach. I like my X-men rich and funded by zillionaires. First we had Idie shopping at Goodwill in Iceman. Now kitty is so cheap shes making people fly Coach.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tazirai View Post
    Meggans Hips though...

    Davis is why I fell in love with Psylocke lol.
    Y'know -- I love Chris Claremont. But that's one thing he did I was never fond of -- the transformation of Elizabeth Braddock. I thought she was amazing as the feminine British aristocrat. So regal, so beautiful.

    I'll never forget that New Mutants Annual, drawn by Davis, written by Claremont where Doug Ramsey fell in love with her. Of course he would, she was stunning!

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamGuthrie1977 View Post
    Yeah, that was my assumption too.

    But the reader shouldn't have to assume that. Most kids don't gain their mutant abilities until puberty or during a traumatic event. So why does this child have super intelligence/speech/whatever at birth? It doesn't matter, evidently. No effort put into the storytelling. The apathy from the creative team and editors exuded from every page. Phoning it in when Excalibur fans were genuinely excited about returning to the house Claremont built.

    If an editor was actually doing their job, they would suggest to the writers a simple one-liner by Meggan or Brian clarifying that the child was a special mutant. Or something. Anything.

    As it is, it makes no sense, and leaves the reader unsatisfied because it's cheap and lazy storytelling.
    Another form of apathy from the creative team: the solicit promised the return of Kitty's iconic Shadowcat costume. It was promised in an earlier Gold letters page. Instead she rejects it as a children's costume (great way to pander to Excalibur fans btw! She's currently wearing a goddang New Mutants costume. Which age group wore those costumes?). The writer of this book explained she was supposed to get it in the original script, but alas, there was not enough page real estate.

    Yet we have TWO FUCKING PAGES FOR AN AIRPLANE JOKE.

    Quote Originally Posted by SamGuthrie1977 View Post
    Y'know -- I love Chris Claremont. But that's one thing he did I was never fond of -- the transformation of Elizabeth Braddock. I thought she was amazing as the feminine British aristocrat. So regal, so beautiful.

    I'll never forget that New Mutants Annual, drawn by Davis, written by Claremont where Doug Ramsey fell in love with her. Of course he would, she was stunning!
    Claremont meant for it to be temporary. Jim Lee and Bob Harrass overruled him. Then he tried to get British Betsy back in the '00s but was again nixed.
    Last edited by Maestroneto; 01-11-2018 at 03:58 PM.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maestroneto View Post
    Another form of apathy from the creative team: the solicit promised the return of Kitty's iconic Shadowcat costume. It was promised in an earlier Gold letters page. Instead she rejects it as a children's costume (great way to pander to Excalibur fans btw! She's currently wearing a goddang New Mutants costume. Which age group wore those costumes?). The writer of this book explained she was supposed to get it in the original script, but alas, there was not enough page real estate.

    Yet we have TWO FUCKING PAGES FOR AN AIRPLANE JOKE.
    Great point. And even with the dumb airplane joke -- they still could've put Kitty in the classic Excalibur costume for several pages, because Brian explicitly tells Kitty he has her old costume on hand!

    Brian: "I, ah, do believe we still have your old Shadowcat uniform here somewhere..."

    Kitty: "No thanks, I'd rather tease the fans and make sure they were lied to. Remember, I'm nuKitty -- who wears an even older New Mutants costume. Take that, readers."

    Quote Originally Posted by Maestroneto View Post
    Claremont meant for it to be temporary. Jim Lee and Bob Harrass overruled him. Then he tried to get British Betsy back in the '00s but was again nixed.
    Oh yeah? Interesting. I didn't know that.
    Last edited by SamGuthrie1977; 01-11-2018 at 04:34 PM.

  14. #74
    File Clerk of MI13 The Sword is Drawn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamGuthrie1977 View Post
    Oh yeah? Interesting. I didn't know that.

    Yes. When Claremont had Betsy killed by Vargas in Xtreme X-Men it was with the intention that he would finally get to bring her back in her original body.

    It got nixed because Marvel put that 'Dead must mean dead' rule in for all their books in the early 2000s. So that never happened in the end.
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  15. #75
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    As mentioned in the issue, Kitty was 14 when she had that old costume. She realistically wouldnt likely fit in it anyway

    Quote Originally Posted by The Sword is Drawn View Post
    Yes. When Claremont had Betsy killed by Vargas in Xtreme X-Men it was with the intention that he would finally get to bring her back in her original body.

    It got nixed because Marvel put that 'Dead must mean dead' rule in for all their books in the early 2000s. So that never happened in the end.
    He still was the one that wrote her resurrection but didnt do that

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