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  1. #46
    Astonishing Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    He shaved it in Rucka’s run
    Please sign this so we can at least show DC we want Legend of Wonder Woman part 2.

    https://www.change.org/p/comic-fans-...part-2-back-on

  2. #47
    Extraordinary Member Vanguard-01's Avatar
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    Yeah, I tried to maintain optimism for this run, but this is getting ridiculous. Jason is just utterly unlikable and now we have a much less appealing take on Vanessa and Julia? Vanessa just THINKS she was a close friend of Diana's? REALLY?

    In the original run, Vanessa very much WAS Diana's friend and sister. We saw this. We loved this. This is why it hurt like HELL when we saw Vanessa descend into madness. This time? She's just some deluded girl who lashes out at Diana because of some ridiculously inflated self image?

    Yeah, That's just not working at all.
    Though much is taken, much abides; and though
    We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are,
    One equal temper of heroic hearts,
    Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
    To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

    --Lord Alfred Tennyson--

  3. #48
    Astonishing Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    I wonder if I'm the only one who wants all three Silver Swans to exist as a group.
    Please sign this so we can at least show DC we want Legend of Wonder Woman part 2.

    https://www.change.org/p/comic-fans-...part-2-back-on

  4. #49
    Extraordinary Member Vanguard-01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    I wonder if I'm the only one who wants all three Silver Swans to exist as a group.
    I'm not opposed to the idea. It could create an interesting dynamic and make for a good group of foes for Diana.
    Though much is taken, much abides; and though
    We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are,
    One equal temper of heroic hearts,
    Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
    To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

    --Lord Alfred Tennyson--

  5. #50
    Astonishing Member Dr. Poison's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Dyer View Post
    There just might be a way to bring Doc Julia back, out of all of this, though. What would Vanessa do to bring her mother back from Hades? Serve the god of war, as his Silver Swan, maybe? Maybe...

    I really like that theory!
    Currently Reading: Aquaman, Doomsday Clock, Hawkman, Heroes in Crisis, Justice League, Justice League Dark, Titans, & Wonder Woman.

  6. #51
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    If there's room for redemption for the character, I'd like to see a more mentally stable Vanessa cause her look to change, and in a reverse Angel/Archangel scenario, have those metal wings be traded in for the real thing. Could be touching if she reforms and actually becomes something akin to what her drawings originally showed. Although rushed narritavely, Diana's influence has already saved one character (Jason). Maybe it'll become a theme and she can do it again.


    That's kinda why I was hoping there was room to maybe have this couple not be dead, despite the blood. Then I saw the severed leg. Soo...that might not be happening, lol.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "Now why don't we step up here and everybody get stepped up, and let's get some stepped up personal space up in this place." - Phillip Jacobs

  7. #52
    Astonishing Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    I hope that things go well with him meeting Hippoltya. Thinking more about it I canít see Hippoltya just abandoning him due to Hera. I do hope things go well. Another thing it seems maybe Robison will do Gail Simone storyline Amazons attack or it could be just a coincidence
    Going by the backstory, I think she would be thrilled to see him. Possibly concerned for his safety though, depending on what's going with Hera now.

    But Hera's jealousy in Greek myth is nothing to sneeze at. There's quite a few myths out there about how she would take her vengeance out on those whom slept with Zeus. Hercules, or rather, Heracles (the name itself was meant to be an affront to Hera), is a rather famous example. She meddled with his life since the moment he was born.

  8. #53
    Fantastic Member wonder39's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    Going by the backstory, I think she would be thrilled to see him. Possibly concerned for his safety though, depending on what's going with Hera now.

    But Hera's jealousy in Greek myth is nothing to sneeze at. There's quite a few myths out there about how she would take her vengeance out on those whom slept with Zeus. Hercules, or rather, Heracles (the name itself was meant to be an affront to Hera), is a rather famous example. She meddled with his life since the moment he was born.
    Her is one of Diana's patrons and was present in blessing her with her gifts... So Jason had to be put in hiding but not Diana? ...and somehow the Gods were dumb enough to believe a story about a clay birth when none of them.were involved in it?
    ...this is all so stupid...

  9. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by wonder39 View Post
    Her is one of Diana's patrons and was present in blessing her with her gifts... So Jason had to be put in hiding but not Diana? ...and somehow the Gods were dumb enough to believe a story about a clay birth when none of them.were involved in it?
    And when, in fact, she spent nine months being pregnant. If she's worried (as she seemed to be) that Hera and the other deities might sometimes pay attention to her life, then they would have almost a year to notice that conspicuous fact. This makes the clay origin (thrown in as an Easter egg, or a sop to fans of the older story, or nostalgia) a spectacularly poorly-chosen lie on Hippolyta's part. (She also seemed to conceal her pregnancy from most of her sister Amazons.) She should have just said, "I was on a mission off-island for a few days, met an interesting man, and got pregnant."

    It can be argued that Hippolyta's decision to have sex with Zeus was outright immoral - not because of the adultery question (which I leave to Zeus and Hera to work out), but because Hippolyta knows from history that it might very well direct the wrath of Hera (famous for the strength and persistence of her wrath) at Hippolyta, her Amazon sisters, the island, and any children Hippolyta and Zeus might have. Which, in Azzarello's run at least, is exactly what happened. Pretty careless, even reckless, choice for the wise queen of the Amazons. There were other men, even other gods, she could have slept with, and not risked the safety of her loved ones.

    In mythology, most of Zeus's sex partners didn't really have a choice.In some cases he disguised himself as their husbands. Hippolyta doesn't have this excuse.

    ...this is all so stupid...
    At least, not coherent. As I've mentioned, since "The Lies" and "The Truth," we know less about Diana's story as a child of Zeus (what her mom told her instead of the truth, when and how she found out she was Zeus's daughter, when and how Hera and the other gods found out, how Hera reacted, whether or not and in what manner Hera was reconciled to the situation...) then we did before.
    Last edited by Doctor Bifrost; 01-12-2018 at 01:39 AM.
    Doctor Bifrost

    "If Roy G. Bivolo had seen some B&W pencil sketches, his whole life would have turned out differently." http://doctorbifrost.blogspot.com/

  10. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    Heracles (the name itself was meant to be an affront to Hera)...
    Actually the opposite. In most tellings, "The child was originally given the name Alcides by his parents; it was only later that he became known as Heracles. He was renamed Heracles in an unsuccessful attempt to mollify Hera."
    Doctor Bifrost

    "If Roy G. Bivolo had seen some B&W pencil sketches, his whole life would have turned out differently." http://doctorbifrost.blogspot.com/

  11. #56
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    So, I don't know who Robinson thinks Diana is, but she would never say this:

    "Because at the moment, you're acting like you're still a nobody - like you're still gutting fish on a beach somewhere."
    Diana doesn't think that people who gut fish are "nobodies"; she comes from an island culture where some of her sisters spend a good portion of their lives seafaring and gutting fish. Also, she cares about the everyday people, and those are who she saves. For Christ's sake, last issue, it's that value that Darkseid exploited to get away.

    I don't dislike Jason more; I think it'd be cliched if he just "suddenly saw the light and became a great hero. Robinson established him as a fairly care-free and somewhat party boy in his introduction, and while Diana may inspire him, I'm fine with him not really knowing what he wants. Just no more instant changes from good to evil, please.

    I expect it'll turn out that the nanites are somewhat to blame for Vanessa's mental instability, and also that she's conflated the depth of their relationship. If not, then Robinson's Diana is a terrible friend.

    Lupacchino's art is good; I'm happy to see her around WW any day. The only think I don't quite get - and I don't know if this is because of her or because of the colors by Fajardo - is why all of the characters all of the time have ruddy noses. Diana, Vanessa, Jason, Steve, Major Disaster: they all either have allergies or a strange habit of adding a hint of blush to the tips of their noses. But that's a small price to pay for a well-drawn comic.

  12. #57
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    I'm actually kinda hoping Nessie's memories are shot. We're never given a clearcut timeline of all this stuff happening. Its all rather scattershot and vague. So maybe there's room there to address the likes of Vanguard's criticism and say that they DID become genuine friends, that they were close, and that Diana never stopped seeing her. Rather for some reason (the nanites?) she's just forgotten. Or hell, maybe utilize the greater Rebirth "missing ten years" thing to explain it.

    At this point I think that would qualify as a reaching theory, but we'll see.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "Now why don't we step up here and everybody get stepped up, and let's get some stepped up personal space up in this place." - Phillip Jacobs

  13. #58
    Marston > Kirby Vaffrey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Dyer View Post
    I like Jason!

    James Robinson has already said very assuredly that he wasn't giving us a male Wonder Woman, but, it looks like Diana will be training him to be some sort of hero, ..just as Superman trained Kara. His dramatically not-heroic behavior appears to be setting things up for this, and I'm looking forward to it. For now, he's a party monster and a notorious lady's man, ending any chance (I hope) of Jason being a bad Warkiller do-over.

    Since Jason's origin has already revealed that Warkiller (aka 'the Olympian') is out there, no need for Jason to be a clone.
    First, I don't think I can begin to describe just how wretchedly, abominably awful that kind of story would be. This sounds about as bad as most of the "write like it's fanfic!" New 52 stories were. We're starting already with simply awful writing in the actual issues we've seen. Then if the scenario you imagines unfolds, just envision the same level of bad writing choking itself on that bad arc.

    Just imagine what DC would be trying to shove down our throats if that's the case. We would have had the "Introducing ... Jason: the brother who meets her in the worst possible way but decides to be family" plot point, and this would be the "Hey, he's so TODAY, he's a party beast single dude wrecking the place comically! They're the Odd Couple meets Perfect Strangers!" plot beat. Followed by what? Oh, I'm guessing ...

    • Jason gets some groundrules for living in his sister's place and argues with her about it
    • Jason sees WW doing some good and is touched
    • WW realizes Jason could be helpful on a mission for her and Steve
    • Jason likes the hero-work
    • Conflict at home spills over into conflict at super-work
    • Jason sees the softer side of his sister and is moved
    • Jason, despite himself, decides to be there for his sister when she's down and out
    • Jason admits he cares for his sister


    Gag.

    Jason is Poochie.

  14. #59
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    The very idea of basic character development is now wretched and like fanfic? God I hate that overused term in the first place. Fanfic is the go to insult for anything one doesn't like. Its lost all meaning, if it ever had one to begin with.

    In any case, I'm with you Mel, he's clearly going to be developed into a superhero with most likely a brand new codename and whatnot. I still am betting on Argo.

    The CBR article has an interesting theory of a possible hint that Doctor Psycho is once again involved in Vanessa's turn.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 01-12-2018 at 02:11 PM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "Now why don't we step up here and everybody get stepped up, and let's get some stepped up personal space up in this place." - Phillip Jacobs

  15. #60
    Mighty Member Gemini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    I get you don't like him, that's cool. I think that negative bias though is driving a few here to greatly exaggerate how awful this is.
    I don't agree I think this is pretty awful as a concept and if he does end up where many are speculating then I think it would be almost laughable that he will end up probably a more well developed hero than Diana is

    Quote Originally Posted by MarquisAsh View Post
    So everything youíre saying is based off your feelings from not liking him?
    I'm basing it off my feelings for the story and the character

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