The Wicked + The Divine

[Celestin]

A new issue is out and in my opinion it would be nice to have one thread for a discussion of the whole series.

Confirmed gods:
- Lucifer
- Amaterasu
- Baal
- Sakhmet
- Woden
- Inanna
- Minerva
- The Morrigan
- Tara
- Baphomet

That's ten and additionally there is Ananke as their guardian. That leaves two more and I suspect that Laura may turn out to be one of them if Gillen wants to have "be careful what you wish for" theme in the series.

[joshuastar]

right on!

I wonder how far we are into the recurrence. and do all the gods come back at the same time? if they come back at different times, do they each get two full years, or is it two years from the first?

[Celestin]

Gods with their possible pantheons and symbols which is something I didn't have time to add in the first post.

Amaterasu - Japanese mythology. (12th hour symbol)

Lucifer - Christianity and she's the odd one since she's not a god in her religion. (1st hour symbol)

Sakhmet - Egyptian mythology. (2nd hours symbol)

Baphomet - occult and another odd choice. (3rd hour symbol)

Minerva - Roman mythology. More or less Greek Athena. (4th hour symbol)

Woden - Anglo-Saxon mythology. More or less Norse Odin. (5th hour symbol)

The Morrigan - Irish mythology. (6th hour symbol)

Inanna - Sumerian mythology. (8th hour symbol)

Tara - Buddhism or Hinduism going by the comics. Additionally Polynesian mythology or the Druidic religion after checking wikipedia. Popular name that one. (9th hour symbol)

Baal - ancient Near Eastern mythology. (10th hour symbol)

[El Sombrero]

I think I'm done with this book. I was let down by #1 and couldn't really get into #2 either. I think this book has a great concept but the execution isn't really working for me. Gillen just tries WAY too hard to be hip and the book feels so in love with itself that it's a turnoff. I had the exact same problem with Young Avengers; Gillen has these tendencies to begin with, and it seems like McKelvie brings the worst out of him. I generally like comics with more of an indie sensibility, but this is so hipster it hurts.

[Kid A]

Yeah Gillen's style is way too self-conscious and try-hard to take seriously.

[El Sombrero]

Yeah Gillen's style is way too self-conscious and try-hard to take seriously.

Yep, "self-conscious" was the term I was thinking of but couldn't recall.

It's a shame because the art is really excellent and I like the overall idea, and even some of the characters seem interesting with solid dialogue, but the try-hard stuff as you said just goes wayyyyy overboard.

I think this has become a problem with a lot of popular writers and books right now, especially at Image. KSD's Pretty Deadly would have been a lot better if the story was presented more clearly and didn't treat itself like the most high-art thing ever created. Hickman's East of West would be better if it didn't treat itself like the most important story ever created.

The reason why Saga works, unlike the above mentioned titles, is that the series isn't completely in love with itself and still feels humble. Same thing with Sex Criminals, that's another title that has a bit of a hipster feel to it but doesn't take itself so seriously that it feels like you need to put on your THIS IS SERIOUS BUSINESS hat when you read it.

[Left Hook]

After the 1st issue, I considered dropping it. A lot of ppl like it though, so maybe I missed something, maybe I half-passed read it on a bad day. So I decided to give issue 2 a shot. It's not for me.


Question, when you guys say it feels like the book feels too important for itself, did the end essay have anything to do with it? I get that from the book too, but can't really put my finger on why.

[Dorktron]

Yep, "self-conscious" was the term I was thinking of but couldn't recall.

It's a shame because the art is really excellent and I like the overall idea, and even some of the characters seem interesting with solid dialogue, but the try-hard stuff as you said just goes wayyyyy overboard.

I think this has become a problem with a lot of popular writers and books right now, especially at Image. KSD's Pretty Deadly would have been a lot better if the story was presented more clearly and didn't treat itself like the most high-art thing ever created. Hickman's East of West would be better if it didn't treat itself like the most important story ever created.

The reason why Saga works, unlike the above mentioned titles, is that the series isn't completely in love with itself and still feels humble. Same thing with Sex Criminals, that's another title that has a bit of a hipster feel to it but doesn't take itself so seriously that it feels like you need to put on your THIS IS SERIOUS BUSINESS hat when you read it.

Saga and Sex Criminals have comedy elements to them. Is that what you are referring to?

[El Sombrero]

Question, when you guys say it feels like the book feels too important for itself, did the end essay have anything to do with it? I get that from the book too, but can't really put my finger on why.

No, the essay didn't have anything to do with it. Kind of like you said, it's hard to put into words why I think the book feels so self-important. I guess, to pinpoint a few specific flaws, the story so far seems concerned with pomp and circumstance over much actual plot development. The scenes where we see the gods on display look kind of stupid, with the gods either acting really childish (the Rihanna cat one) or the reader just having to believe Gillen's word that the music is somehow hypnotic and orgasm-inducing (the concert in the first issue). I love music and have been deeply touched by music but it feels like Gillen found a metaphor he liked (music as the work of the gods) and took it way too far. I have a hard time believing people can really rate this 10/10 based on the execution presented thus far.

Saga and Sex Criminals have comedy elements to them. Is that what you are referring to?

Comedy certainly plays a part, but there are comedy elements in The Wicked & The Divine too, so it's more than that. I guess I feel we're being shown all these major scenes (the concert mentioned above, the past incarnations of gods in the first issue opening, how Luci is created in the second issue, etc) but it doesn't really feel like there's any weight or anything truly meaningful behind it. The fangirl main character is obsessed with becoming godlike as her main mission in life, which in this title seems to amount to "you dress really trendy and have a lot of social media followers." Gillen & McKelvie's Young Avengers was hyped as "style > substance" and I think they live up to that in a really disappointing way. This is the definition of a book that gets overhyped on the Internet before release based on fashionable, cosplay-ready characters and a fresh, cutting-edge, marketable style, but really fails to deliver.

Saga and Sex Criminals spent significantly more time in their opening issues on character development, and crafted characters and relationships with genuine heart and believable emotion to complement their creative high concepts. That's the difference.

[Left Hook]

Actually, I'm ok with the concert scene. I just associated it with those crazy fans that feint in the first row from those big name concerts. Sometimes in documentaries, they'll show security dragging them out. This is the concept of the book that I actually dig. Pop stars in real life do have powers over their crazy obsessed fans. Look at that "Leave Britney alone" guy for example. The concept is what got me to buy issue 1, but It's the execution that hasn't grabbed me.

[Blacksun]

Yeah Gillen's style is way too self-conscious and try-hard to take seriously.

I don't think he is self-conscious. I think it's exactly the contrary, his writing is pretty acessible and speak very well to young readers like me. He just do a complete work that involves even music.

[Dr. Cheesesteak]

So far, I think the execution and characterizations are fine in their own way. I just don't like how every character is some combo of dull, unlikable, and/or self-serving. And the whole hipster, fast lifestyle of the gods we've seen so far doesn't really redeem anything either.

After #1, I thought I may like Luci. After #2, she seems just another generic British hipster druggy.

I am still curious as to the other gods, their personalities, what the point of the Recurrence is, etc. But I'm not sure any of that will be explained any time soon and I'm not sure I'm willing to wait very long.

I know it's only 2 issues in, but my budget is tight and my pull list is long w/ what seems to be a handful of new titles vying for spots every month. I'll prob give this series another issue or 2, but it's a very short leash.

[Time Like Lightning]

Fantastic book. We're definitely still in the world-building stage right now, but Gillen's also managing to put in a good chunk of development for Laura, Luci, and (surprisingly) Cassandra. How far's Laura willing to go? How much can she trust Luci? What does Luci see in her? How much does Cassandra believe in any of this, and what does she hope to get out of it?

Plus it's damn gorgeous. You go, McKelvie and Wilson.

[LooneyKoala]

Just read issue #2, and I absolutely love this series!! (which is good as I've already ordered #3)

I can't wait for the next issue, which is something that's becoming rare for me now. So it must be doing something right for me that other titles aren't doing!! :') I'm excited to see where they take it and get to know some of the other gods (like the now introduced Baphomet ), but Luci is definitely my favourite character so far

Just wish I had the #1 Luci variant... :'(

[Kid A]

Question, when you guys say it feels like the book feels too important for itself, did the end essay have anything to do with it? I get that from the book too, but can't really put my finger on why.

For me, the first two issues have too many scenes that just feel like posturing the premise of the comic instead of moving the story forward. Like even if you didn't read interviews and didn't know the premise, it's excessive. And the problem here is that once you get past all that posturing, the plot itself is fairly thin and uninteresting.

I don't think he is self-conscious. I think it's exactly the contrary, his writing is pretty acessible and speak very well to young readers like me. He just do a complete work that involves even music.

Uh, glad you like it, but I don't get how any of that is "exactly the contrary" to how self-conscious this book is.

And for me it's the opposite, this feels like some 40 year old pop culture geek (that's NOT an insult, I'm probably the same just younger) trying too hard to be hipster.