The Martian Manhunter Pro/Con Workshop

[stephens2177]

Exactly!

1. Standard superbody powerset(flight, strength, speed, durability) with a bonus trick (phasing) for League combat.
2. Anthromorphic Shapeshifting that covers healing and cloaking for subtle spy work and investigations.
3. And then finally TTP and MNP for intimate, superclose nonlethal attacks.

This sets up a totally alien superhero who still makes sense faking his way through the Pentagon, the Kremlin, and Gotham City, and pushes his psychic talents to his LAST recourse, rather than his first.

Meanwhile, Miss Martian gets Anthromorphic Shapeshifting and your garden variety Marvel mutant Telekinesis, and learns TTP stuff from her mentor. Same but different.

All his powers that "seem to be" flying brick powers need a non brick explanation imo,we shouldn't just leave it as a list,his mind and the ability to manipulate himself his how he takes a bullet,lifts a car,flies,"pushes" himself fast,they all need separated from the bricls like Superman,wonder woman,and captain marvel,to keep him unique imo.

Miss martian can be unique.she could be a genetically engineered white martian sent to kill Jonn(at first of course).that's why she takes the powerset Jonn has and expands on it
He has self TK,and she takes it to full TK
He has tactile telepathy and she takes it to full telepathy.

She has the raw power,Jonn has the skill and wisdom

[stephens2177]

I like the ideas of Self-Telekinesis and am adoring the notion of Tactile Telepathy.

Self-TK covers:

• Superhuman strength and durability
• Mass manipulation, including shapeshifting, invisibility, and intangibility
• Regenerative healing factor
• Flight

I prefer Invisibility as a telepathic power...but that's just me.

Tactile Telepath covers his vast array of telepathic powers but with a unique limitation.

So far, so good.

We have lost: super-speed, heat vision/Martian vision and super senses (especially x-ray vision).

I won't miss super-speed or Martian vision. Doesn't he need some sensory powers? (Not x-ray vision.)

He wouldn't be able to "project" his being invisible to anybody if he has tactile telepathy like we are using here.thats why manipulating his body to be transparent works better imo.If he can change the way his body looks,how tough or non physical,then transparency control fits right into that.

I was also thinking about his sensory powers,and the fact that we took all of them away from him also.then I thought of the 1st officer on Star Trek Discovery.his species has a detection feeling on the back of their necks to let them know if someone means harm.the idea is actually perfect for the way I see green martians,they would also use/need this to protect themselves from white martians or any dangerous thing on Mars.what do you think of that? It's not a insanely powerful sensory ability,but Jonn really doesnt need one,he can be invisible, intangible,or Change the way he looks,which gives him the edge.

[CRaymond]

Eh my Manhunter idea is too much.

[stephens2177]

Eh my Manhunter idea is too much.

Lol,too much for me,maybe,but why for you?

[daBronzeBomma]

Keep / Expand:

- telepathy
- shapeshifting
- invisibility
- intangibility
- weakness to fire

Lose / Reduce:

- superstrength
- superspeed
- invulnerability
- sensory powers (vision / hearing)
- flight
- any kind of optic blast

Have I accounted for all of MM's usual / traditional attributes or am I still missing some?

[CRaymond]

Lol,too much for me,maybe,but why for you?

Eh, it’s not really “too much” for me. It does exactly what I needed: 1. changes the meaning of “Martian Manhunter”, 2. changes his default form to his branded appearance, 3. adds flying brick powers to an otherwise average Martian, 4. gives him a form that’s space-ready and on-par with cosmic threats.

I just read our conversations, and yeah, it does lead to a cool power set and character perspective, but my android concept is like adding a pair of wings to an elephant and saying “perfect!” I’m really glad some of you like my ideas. I need to realize when one idea is just too out there.

[scary harpy]

He wouldn't be able to "project" his being invisible to anybody if he has tactile telepathy like we are using here.thats why manipulating his body to be transparent works better imo.If he can change the way his body looks,how tough or non physical,then transparency control fits right into that.

I was also thinking about his sensory powers,and the fact that we took all of them away from him also.then I thought of the 1st officer on Star Trek Discovery.his species has a detection feeling on the back of their necks to let them know if someone means harm.the idea is actually perfect for the way I see green martians,they would also use/need this to protect themselves from white martians or any dangerous thing on Mars.what do you think of that? It's not a insanely powerful sensory ability,but Jonn really doesnt need one,he can be invisible, intangible,or Change the way he looks,which gives him the edge.

You're right about telepathic invisibility. Plus, being transparent is not exactly invisible so it works.

his species has a detection feeling on the back of their necks to let them know if someone means harm.

Sounds a lot like Spider-Man's danger/spider sense to me. This does not bother me but others might get upset.

I don't know what to do.

What if all of the Martian's senses were more enhanced compared to humans? J'Onn would have better hearing, sight, smell, taste and touch than Batman but not at Superman levels. We'd lose x-ray vision. I'm sure someone would get upset at that. Unless, J'Onn's intuition is enhanced as extra-sensory perception. I'm not sure about that.

I don't mind losing some abilities if we lose the stupid fire weakness. Or the fire weakness is redefined like CRaymond has done. There should be a balance.

[scary harpy]

Keep / Expand:

- telepathy
- shapeshifting
- invisibility
- intangibility
- weakness to fire

Lose / Reduce:

- superstrength
- superspeed
- invulnerability
- sensory powers (vision / hearing)
- flight
- any kind of optic blast

Have I accounted for all of MM's usual / traditional attributes or am I still missing some?

Not bad ideas. If we change him too much, then we lose J'Onn and gain a new character.

Unfortunately, we really limited by the animated/acted appearances J'Onn has already made: Justice Leage, New Frontier, Supergirl, and etcetera. This is how most of the public knows him.

[stephens2177]

Eh, it’s not really “too much” for me. It does exactly what I needed: 1. changes the meaning of “Martian Manhunter”, 2. changes his default form to his branded appearance, 3. adds flying brick powers to an otherwise average Martian, 4. gives him a form that’s space-ready and on-par with cosmic threats.

I just read our conversations, and yeah, it does lead to a cool power set and character perspective, but my android concept is like adding a pair of wings to an elephant and saying “perfect!” I’m really glad some of you like my ideas. I need to realize when one idea is just too out there.

Totally gotcha,I do the same with my kon-el ideas.

But we have to remember DC will only work within the box they feel a character belongs in(no matter how much they don't),so if we are trying to "fix" Jonn in the DCU,and not just fan theorizing (which is fun as hell),we have to put the pieces together they gave us to work with,and make it better.

[stephens2177]

You're right about telepathic invisibility. Plus, being transparent is not exactly invisible so it works.



Sounds a lot like Spider-Man's danger/spider sense to me. This does not bother me but others might get upset.

I don't know what to do.

What if all of the Martian's senses were more enhanced compared to humans? J'Onn would have better hearing, sight, smell, taste and touch than Batman but not at Superman levels. We'd lose x-ray vision. I'm sure someone would get upset at that. Unless, J'Onn's intuition is enhanced as extra-sensory perception. I'm not sure about that.

I don't mind losing some abilities if we lose the stupid fire weakness. Or the fire weakness is redefined like CRaymond has done. There should be a balance.

They can call it anything they want aslong as it makes sense with his powerset,and does the job right?

Having a warning type tingle is a nice close range way to keep your ass alive,would give you great defensive reflexes.

Martians probably do have some kind of heightened senses,and I would base this on however Mars was when Martians actually evolved and lived on Mars.

Weakness to the "idea" of fire has never been a weaknesses I've ever liked.of they straighten up his powerset like we have here,just having heat and cold effect his manipulation of his form and all the weapons they use against ppl with mental powers is plenty enough easily I think.

[scary harpy]

Martians probably do have some kind of heightened senses,and I would base this on however Mars was when Martians actually evolved and lived on Mars.

Weakness to the "idea" of fire has never been a weaknesses I've ever liked.of they straighten up his powerset like we have here,just having heat and cold effect his manipulation of his form and all the weapons they use against ppl with mental powers is plenty enough easily I think.

I like the idea of J'Onn being a weapon created by the White Martians. No Green or Yellow Martians...unless more weapons were created.

This explains the Red and White Saturnians...created as weapons/labor by the White Martians.

I'm also liking your cold/heat explanation too.

[CRaymond]

No Green or Yellow Martians...unless more weapons were created.

Are you suggesting retconning J'onn's family and Martian policeman history to implanted memories?

[stephens2177]

How many times has DC tried to change Jonns origin anyway?

I thought he was a peaceful green martian pulled from his world by a human scientist or something.

If there is 1 thing DC loves is a sad back story(they gave one to Barry allen when he didn't need it),and I don't think Jonn will lose his loss of his family or his planet,that is about as bad as it gets.

How about a compromise like this.

Peaceful green martian Jonn is taken by the white martians and experimenting on,and turned into their weapon,but after they commit genocide on his ppl and kills his whole family he breaks free of their control and before he could get his revenge he gets sucked into a portal created by a human scientist on earth.then you get Jonns despair for his loss and his getting adept at earth story,then the JSA part,then fast forward to the JL.when he feels at peace and at home on earth in his private life and his heroic life that's when the white martians show up to take back(or destroy) their weapon.
How about that?

Just like all living things extremes of heat and cold stop things from being active,so why not a mentally controlled self matter manipulaters body also.the mental weaknesses has been so sketchy over the years it would be nice to just have a straight forward set of problems Jonn has to overcome

[scary harpy]

Are you suggesting retconning J'onn's family and Martian policeman history to implanted memories?

Not my suggestion, I think.

The recent mini-series flat came out and said that. Perhaps I misinterpreted it?

[CRaymond]

The recent mini-series flat came out and said that. Perhaps I misinterpreted it?

Oh yeah the new one with the cool masthead and smooth purple costume. I liked the art but I never read it. I did see a couple captions and speech bubbles that confirm what you're saying though. I don't know the details, but it felt like a mind game and J'onn didn't know what was real.

I feel like destroying the family unit backstory in favor of a Total Recall fake past is the wrong way to go! He's an alien with truly alien superpowers and you're(the writer) going to take away the only sympathetic bridge we have to him? Plus, his father-daughter relationship works SO WELL with Alex, Kara, and M'gann... I'd hate for that to be a lie.