The Other history of the D.C.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

While I thought this issue did a great job of fleshing out Mal & Karen in ways the comics never have, I gotta admit the inclusion of the real-life killings in Atlanta rubbed me the wrong way. There’s more than enough examples of minority characters being treated shabbily in the comics already. They don’t need to invent new ones involving the murders of black children. That struck me as a strawman argument that weakened an otherwise solid issue.

[Robanker]

While I thought this issue did a great job of fleshing out Mal & Karen in ways the comics never have, I gotta admit the inclusion of the real-life killings in Atlanta rubbed me the wrong way. There’s more than enough examples of minority characters being treated shabbily in the comics already. They don’t need to invent new ones involving the murders of black children. That struck me as a strawman argument that weakened an otherwise solid issue.

I feel pretty similarly. This issue was a lot more uneven to me than the first. Definitely a dense read and did some Herculean work to really flesh out Mal and Karen, but there's some stuff that made me think "I really don't know about that decision, but let's see where it goes." Some pay off and others do not.

Where this succeeds in a big way is character. Mal and Karen have such distinct voices and interpretations of DC's history based on their own personal accounts that the book soars when you get enraptured in how strong that characterization is.

Once again, Ridley employs a classic misdirection on Superman where he's presented as this beacon of privilege only for the rug to be swept out from the POV character's perception of his colossal loss and struggle. As a Superman fan, it almost feels a bit meta with "everyone thinks he's perfect but there's a lot going on under his hood that sucks real bad for him" and I have to wonder if he will continue to be the symbol of one of the book's emerging themes throughout the remaining installments. It continues in other instances, but currently Superman is the one that appears in both books. I can only assume it's because he's there to serve as the big primary colored indicator that a major theme throughout the book seems to be "perception and how it colors our understanding of what occurs right before our very eyes." It's through the lens of the disenfranchised but it cuts pretty deep both ways. They're failing to see the truth about others and the entire plot is about people failing to see what's happening to them; how the actions of the fortunate or privileged impact those without said good fortune or standing.

Another core theme emerging seems to be that coming together is when history starts doing right by all involved. Obvious anvils to drop, but they're done pretty well in here. Maybe I'm off my rocker, but those seem to be the two primary threads weaving the mission statement of "DC's history from the eyes of the disenfranchised" together in a compelling manner.

This one wasn't as strong for me as the first issue, but I love Tatsu and she's the POV character of the next issue so I'm interested to see how the team behind this book present her.

[4sake Baned]

Another amazing issue love this series so far

[bat39]

Great issue! Ridley got me to care about probably two of the most obscure DC characters ever, and that's just the tip of the iceberg here.

I saw the whole issue as a meta comment on the perspective of two B-list characters, B-list characters who happen to be minorities no less, in the Bronze Age DCU - recontextualizing their sporadic appearances and long periods of hiatus as a conflict between trying to fit into the elite club of the Teen Titans and superheroes in general on the one hand, and just trying to lead normal lives on the other.

Once again, we had the angle of superheroes not solving 'real issues' and no super-villain plot being as diabolical as systemic racism, apathy and socio-economic stagnation. Though the idea that no superheroes offered to help solve the Atlanta murders is a bit more problematic than the Justice League's refusal to intervene in the Iran hostage crisis last issue. At least there, there was a 'legit' argument to be made that it would cause an international incident or that the heroes didn't want to be seen as agents of the US government in an armed conflict. In this case, frankly, the only reason why the heroes wouldn't get involved is probably just plain old apathy or being busier with 'bigger' things. So yeah, it doesn't exactly show our icons in great light in this particular instance, since there's actually not even a flimsy handwave for why they wouldn't help.

Superman's handling of Supergirl's debut and the fact that she was kept separate from other teenage superheroes was another interesting angle to explore. And yes, Superman does come off poorly in Karen's estimation, but much like what happened with John Stewart last issue, we get to see him in a more sympathetic light when tragedy strikes. But yeah, Ridley does seem to have a bee in his bonnet about Superman and the idea that he's preoccupied with being accepted by people. Is this just what Superman would naturally be perceived as by someone like Karen or Jefferson Pierce? Or is Ridley making a larger point about Superman? I wonder if Tatsu runs into Clark next issue...

Boy, Roy sure comes off badly here! Also the impression given here seems to be that he was using all through the Teen Titans years, which I'm not sure was actually the case in the original comics (didn't he turn to drugs because Ollie was neglecting him or something?). The Teen Titans in general come off a bit badly from Mal and especially Karen's perspectives, but a lot of that you can put down to their own insecurities and perceptions. But Roy seems to objectively come off as a jerk here.

Now, for a couple of continuity nitpicks. Are all the issues meant to be part of he same continuity/timeline or are they standalone one-offs? Because there's a pretty glaring chronological discrepancy between this issue and the last - in the previous issue, Superman and the other heroes made their debuts sometime around 1975, with the Justice League clearly forming in 1976 (its even a 'plot point' of sorts - Jeff mentions the symbolism of the League forming in the biccentennial year.) But in this issue, the Teen Titans are already around in 1970! I guess its to align the chronology with Mal and Karen's real world publishing history, but it does clash pretty clearly with the timeline established last issue. At least Kara's debut being set around 1980 last issue sticks here.

Then there's the question of which version of Superman we're dealing with here. It seems to be the Pre COIE Superman, and yet there's a Lex Corp easter egg. Also, Clark's career as Superboy is briefly alluded to, even though last issue, it seems as though he made his debut as an adult as Superman. These are minor nitpicks of course, but it does take away the immersion in this narrative and this particular take of the DCU on a 'real timeline' a bit. I wonder if they try to smooth this out in the subsequent issues.

I'm really curious to know how COIE went down in this 'reality'. We see infinite earths on the splash page so it looks like the Multiverse was involved. But is the earth of this mini series the real 'Earth One'? Is the Crisis shown here the actual Crisis or some fudged version of it that people in this reality remember. I'm guessing Mal and Karen and Jeff and everyone remember a consistent timeline after the Crisis which includes Kara dying and that there are not going to be any in-story 'reboots'. Again, none of this is relevant to the actual story at hand, but it does make my head hurt thinking about it.

Anyway, really looking forward to what's next!

[sifighter]

You know I can see how Ridley’s take on Superman could be off putting but I think we have to look at it in a certain way. First this story is not about Superman, with the first two issues all we really get is our POV characters talking about two specific moments involving Superman. In fact it could be argued that these are just the specific characters projections onto the Superman and that it’s to to be treated similarly to how Black Lightning treated John Stewart until he actually got to know him, as a personal thought of the character only. We aren’t in Superman’s head in these scenes or understanding how he feels so it’s going to come off weird to us that read and like Superman.

Another thing though is that I think Ridley’s idea of Superman is human ironically. He’s supposed to be the world’s greatest hero, this perfect symbol of truth and justice, but it’s important to remember that he was raised human so maybe that comes with unaware bias or things he just never considered before and that his kryptonian origins made him overprotective of Kara because as was pointed out he was afraid of a personal loss. So I think Ridley’s point is that superheroes, even someone like Superman, for good or bad are human just like the rest of us.

[Frontier]

Boy, Roy sure comes off badly here! Also the impression given here seems to be that he was using all through the Teen Titans years, which I'm not sure was actually the case in the original comics (didn't he turn to drugs because Ollie was neglecting him or something?). The Teen Titans in general come off a bit badly from Mal and especially Karen's perspectives, but a lot of that you can put down to their own insecurities and perceptions. But Roy seems to objective come off as a jerk here.

I don't think Roy had a drug problem the entire time he was with the Titans (I don't think it was ever even alluded to or indicated beyond the issue of GL&GA where it happened) but that was part of the impetus for why he started.

[Aahz]

Boy, Roy sure comes off badly here! Also the impression given here seems to be that he was using all through the Teen Titans years, which I'm not sure was actually the case in the original comics (didn't he turn to drugs because Ollie was neglecting him or something?).

Roy being a junkie was kind of shock moment in a "Green Lantern/Green Arrow" Comic, it wasn't like there was build up to it or that it was something that was hinted at before. And it was probaly not decided to make him a junkie untill very shortly before the issue was published.

And I'm not even really sure when they referenced it the first time in Teen Titans.

[Frontier]

Roy being a junkie was kind of shock moment in a "Green Lantern/Green Arrow" Comic, it wasn't like there was build up to it or that it was something that was hinted at before. And it was probaly not decided to make him a junkie untill very shortly before the issue was published.

And I'm not even really sure when they referenced it the first time in Teen Titans.

When he came back in the New Teen Titans as part of a government agency trying to stop the selling of drugs? If I remember right.

[warzon]

I just hope that after this is over with that we get to see More of Bumblebee.The Herald and Black Lightning,waiting to who else Ridley is Writing in this Series so far very instresting.

[Aahz]

When he came back in the New Teen Titans as part of a government agency trying to stop the selling of drugs? If I remember right.

That was during the New Teen Titans in the 80s, "Snowbirds Don't fly" is from 1971.

[Dred]

The stuff with Roy is largely made up or context is thrown away, for whoever cares. Ridley glossed over the actual contents of the comics to create a more antagonistic relationship with the Titans for Mal and Karen to talk about.

A big one is that scene where Roy insults Mal and Mal punches him. They treat that as some horrible mistreatment but in that very comic Roy immediately feels like crap because he was just making a tongue-in-cheek joke and didn't know it would hurt Mal so personally. He spends the rest of the comic beating himself up over the fact that he upset his friend with a bad joke, not accepting the other Titans saying it wasn't such a big deal, trying to get to Mal to apologize, and threatening to quit the team over it rather than ostracize Mal. It is probably the actual single time in Titans history where Mal was given the most respect and equal treatment by his comrades outside of his first appearance.

Boiling it down to "Roy's an ******* junkie who mistreated Mal" is probably the most opposite take you can have of that issue.

Also they made up stuff like Roy just coming in and breaking up the Titans. Or, like, everything with Garth. All that is straight made up. As a nominal fan of the Teen Titans there's certainly a point to be made about the revolving door cast and the inconsistency with which characters like Mal and Karen were given respect and appearances. But I'm not big on a long list of straight up pure revisionism just to **** on what were pretty good stories at the time. It was the only comic at the time even giving significant feature time to black characters and is suddenly **** on it because Mal and Karen were the only black characters to give a retrospective view of it. So the comic that takes the big, inclusive step gets **** on it for doing so. A lot of dissonance.

I really liked the first issue. And I even like a lot of the character voice work done here and a lot of the other perspective stuff (like Mal's feelings about his various personas). But the weird lies to make the Titans look like ignorant, racist jerks is super offputting.

[Vordan]

Basically treat this as it’s own continuity and don’t try to get it to match the actual storylines Ridley is pulling from. This is its own separate beast with Ridley using continuity to tell his story.

[Robanker]

Basically treat this as it’s own continuity and don’t try to get it to match the actual storylines Ridley is pulling from. This is its own separate beast with Ridley using continuity to tell his story.

Pretty much this. It's essentially a riff on Pre-Crisis DC leading into post-Crisis. This doesn't really work as part of the main line. Black label has enabled it to do its own thing which helps this a lot.

[John Venus]

Caught up with the latest issues.

I admit to not knowing much about Mal and Karen prior to this and to say this issue was eye opening would be an understatement.

As someone who grew up reading comics like Superman/Batman: Generations, I enjoy comics like that takes various disparate storylines and elements from the character's and tries to contextualize them in a single cohesive narrative. The story uses continuity in a smart fashion, giving us a different perspective on events, humanizes these fantastical characters and uses them to reflect real life conflicts. "When you fight power, it's not a question of if you can win but how much you lose in trying'. That was powerful.

The bickering between Mal and Karen made me laugh. I admit the scene where Karen reflects on the killings in Atlanta and the wedding of Donna Troy made me a little teary eyed.

If Karen thinks Donna Troy is 'fast', I wonder what she will think of Kory. :P Still that line made me wonder, how many relationships did Donna have before marrying Terry or was Karen being a bit judgemental?

DC should continue this series. I wonder who we will see next? Cyborg? There is so much potential here, especially as the characters move through the decades. I would love to see a similar retrospective on Amazing Man (all three generations), Vixen, Bronze Tiger, Mr Terrific, Tempest/Joshua Clay, Hotspot, Freedom Beast, Dr Mist and that's without getting into the Milestone characters.

[Agent Z]

Caught up with the latest issues.

I admit to not knowing much about Mal and Karen prior to this and to say this issue was eye opening would be an understatement.

As someone who grew up reading comics like Superman/Batman: Generations, I enjoy comics like that takes various disparate storylines and elements from the character's and tries to contextualize them in a single cohesive narrative. The story uses continuity in a smart fashion, giving us a different perspective on events, humanizes these fantastical characters and uses them to reflect real life conflicts. "When you fight power, it's not a question of if you can win but how much you lose in trying'. That was powerful.

The bickering between Mal and Karen made me laugh. I admit the scene where Karen reflects on the killings in Atlanta and the wedding of Donna Troy made me a little teary eyed.

If Karen thinks Donna Troy is 'fast', I wonder what she will think of Kory. :P Still that line made me wonder, how many relationships did Donna have before marrying Terry or was Karen being a bit judgemental?

DC should continue this series. I wonder who we will see next? Cyborg? There is so much potential here, especially as the characters move through the decades. I would love to see a similar retrospective on Amazing Man (all three generations), Vixen, Bronze Tiger, Mr Terrific, Tempest/Joshua Clay, Hotspot, Freedom Beast, Dr Mist and that's without getting into the Milestone characters.

I think it's meant to be the former given how this series plays with the "unreliable narrator" thing.