The Other history of the D.C.

[king81992]

Another good issue. I liked how Ridley got rid of some of the cliches about “honor” or being a trained assassin. Curious to see how Ridley approaches the 00s next issue.


He had it so Slade deliberately manipulated Terra, but wasn’t interested in her sexually, he just took advantage of her. Priest made sure you knew Slade was a scumbag though.

Priest's Deathstroke book was the only one I liked, since he never tried to justify Slade's antics.

[lemonpeace]

Now they sound straight out of an anime .

I mean that ouroboros scene def felt like a scene straight out of bleach. Shiva ran from her spiritual pressure!

[Artemisfanboy]

these aren't claims, it's the story...

putting aside the story isn't positioned to be any particular canon, the story beats do plausibly align with Katana's journey; they've just recontextualized the vents, as is the premise of the series. most of Katana's magic and training have been pretty nebulously applied, more in service of Asian superhero tropes than of the character, so turning that idea on it's head and recontextualizing it as her playing up those stereotypes for her mythology (similar to Batman) is a better spin on her character and pretty clever commentary. you strip away the mystical oriental ornamentation and you have no choice but get to the root of this character. no uber magic sword, no vague secret Japanese swordsmanship training, she had a sword, she had determination, and through the strength of her character she made it to where she is; all while leaving the door open to cultural, outworldly, and possibly mythical elements. I prefer that over her weeping at her sword while it wails "taaaatsuuuuuuuuuu...[cries in japanese]" and she goes "Maseoooooo..[is sorrowful in japanese]" for the umpteenth time.

While, yes OHotDCU takes place in it's own little universe(vaguely based off an alternate version of Pre-crisis E1 as it's base with some major divergences) it's still an official DC publication based on revisiting DC's history, and people are going to compare it to the history it's nominally referencing. And it's always been clear the sword is magic. Also more simplistically, magic swords are cool and some don't like seeing that taken away from her. And while one can dismiss it as not mattering because it's out of continuity, things from out of continuity can find away to worm their way into continuity, though I don't find it likely that this thing with the sword being mundane will. It's not a big issue for me that ruins the book or anything, But I can understand the reasons why demystifying Soultaker here rubs some the wrong way.

Anyway, another nice issue overall. A nice exploration Katana, despite some peeves with the above issue with Soultaker. Also a nice to see Slade get the kind verbal evisceration he deserves.

[lemonpeace]

lemonpeace, there are fates worse than death and human body is very fragile.

Oooooh, I like this. Batman as a Gotham conspiracy monster that politicians, public and police feed. Nice that the writer was allowed to go there.

a slow prolonged state of crippling injury in a dilapidated corrupt city like Gotham (American which means no healthcare), if you look at real life examples, oftentimes means "a fate worst than death" and then you die...

yes the human body is very fragile, if Israel Adesanya kicked 20-50 guys to sleep every night for 10 years, our shattered 100 limbs every night, or crippled a man every night, eventually, some of those guys try to recover slowly only to manage to die later from their broken bodies. people forget because the **** sounds cold in movies and anime and whatnot, but "fate worst than death" often still means you die at the end of it. unless you're telling me Bruce is hitting them with the Mafuba every time he puts a goon in a hospital.

[Vordan]

Priest's Deathstroke book was the only one I liked, since he never tried to justify Slade's antics.

He talked about how he would have to fight DC editorial because he treated Slade as a villain while editorial wanted him to be an anti-hero/anti-villain. Kinda shocking they let Ridley just straight up go “Slade is a monster and a rapist” knowing that. Guess it goes to show how much DC has changed.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

This was my favorite issue thus far.

Like the deep-dive into Titans history last issue, this look at the Outsiders, who I never read or had much interest in, was pretty fascinating. And the way that Wright weaved in the real-life historical events felt much more organic to the story.

There's only one issue left, right? The next one is about Montoya?

[Vordan]

This was my favorite issue thus far.

Like the deep-dive into Titans history last issue, this look at the Outsiders, who I never read or had much interest in, was pretty fascinating. And the way that Wright weaved in the real-life historical events felt much more organic to the story.

There's only one issue left, right? The next one is about Montoya?

Two. Montaya and then the last issue will star one of Jefferson’s daughters to bring the book full circle.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Two. Montaya and then the last issue will star one of Jefferson’s daughters to bring the book full circle.

Oooo, that sounds great. Jefferson's issue was my second favorite issue.

I'm curious if Batman & The Outsiders is worth checking out now. Anyone read it and have any opinions? If I liked this, will I like the original comics?

[Frontier]

as sifighter pointed out, the Victim's Syndicate confirms Katana's perception of the reality that is Batman. Batman's isn't Superman of the Flash or someone with the ability to perfectly incapacitate a criminal without overwhelming force, you can't kung fu a dozen guys without needing to be putting like 4 people down hard as **** so you have the time to fight the other 8. Katana can "fathom" the reality of what violence does to a body, the point is we typically don't when reading Batman's story. we have a vested interest in believing he just puts them down for a little nap with his fist, because that's the myth, but if you are knocking out 100 guys a night for 100 nights straight, if you ain't dead someone else is or will be soon. Superman or one of the Flashs are unstoppable fight machines who can take down a dozen goons but the don't instill fear like Batman does because they are so powerful no matter how hard you fight them they'll be fine and you'll be fine. So in a world where those people exists it's clear it's not a matter of capability, it's a matter of brutality, and if you string together enough brutality then fatality is inevitable.

I also don't think Batman (if written well) would be ignorant as to not see that, nor should he be so emotionally fragile that he couldn't continue his mission (if he truly believed his mission is true) knowing the toll while always striving to lessen the casualties. The Batfamily are a direct extension of his mythology and philosophy but they, as well as the league, have confronted Batman for "going too far" "being crazy" "being extreme" to the point it's a trope. the problem is DC often skirts around getting too specific in order to keep him simple and "good". from a less romantic perspective, in working with Batman, that probably means they all have an understanding of the moral complexity of Batman's mission, just like Katana has her understanding and moves forward working with Batman accordingly. however, how Batman could do better isn't what this story is about, the point was expose that that reality is there and that's the lens through which his character is applied to Katana's story.

I mean, the Victim Syndicate were people caught in the crossfires of Batman fighting villains (with various degrees of culpability on Batman's part), which I feel like is a different subject altogether, but while Batman's not Superman and Flash he has extensive training to be capable of fighting effectively in a way most people aren't and he also has an absolute limit he holds himself to that prevents him from going too far. Which is the entire point behind how he fights, at least in my opinion.

Flash and Superman don't instill fear in the same way Batman does because they don't try and project themselves the way Batman does. When they apply themselves to a similar means they can be pretty darn terrifying, though.

I think he would accept that he can't save everyone. I don't think that would stop the mission. Actually killing people because of uncontrollable excessive force or the fallout of beating them up? That I think would be a dealbreaker. But the reason the Batfamily and the League take Batman to task for going too far is exactly because they know he's acting out-of-character and isn't acting the way he usually is expressing himself or taught them.

oh, I'm not arguing Batman's intentions (nor do i think Katana is either). it's more about the partical cost of his actions. No one would argue Batman is out to kill people, we know his cause is true (or else Katana wouldn't have worked with him) however we're being make to have to look at his actions, and the fallout from his actions, and note that contradiction. just like with John in Jefferson's book, or like the Atlanta murders in the Bumblebee & Mal book, we're dealing in uncomfortable truths and applying them to this universe where superheroes are added into the equation of the caste systems in reality. it's noting that there is a certain privilege of willful ignorance that comes with Batman and supporting his mythology.

I feel like it's more looking at someone else's perception of what the fallout seems to be from their life experience projected onto Batman and Gotham.

[lemonpeace]

Oooo, that sounds great. Jefferson's issue was my second favorite issue.

I'm curious if Batman & The Outsiders is worth checking out now. Anyone read it and have any opinions? If I liked this, will I like the original comics?

you talking about the latest run by Hill? if your basing off this issue, I don't think it's a sufficient follow up. It wasn't bad, it was a decent run on the whole but it doesn't treat Katana with as much depth as this issue does and it overall feels like Batman vs Ra's al Ghul via the Outsiders by the end; which I feel is kinda antithetical to how they are presented here. the Annual is a quick little Katana-focused side quest with Jefferson, it was pretty fun, I'd check that out tho.

[king81992]

He talked about how he would have to fight DC editorial because he treated Slade as a villain while editorial wanted him to be an anti-hero/anti-villain. Kinda shocking they let Ridley just straight up go “Slade is a monster and a rapist” knowing that. Guess it goes to show how much DC has changed.

Maybe DC is heading in the right direction. I am almost optimistic.

[Frontier]

Maybe DC is heading in the right direction. I am almost optimistic.

I don't think Slade would ever stop being completely depicted as a bad guy.

[king81992]

I don't think Slade would ever stop being completely depicted as a bad guy.

I should hope not, their attempts to portray him as an anti hero or downplay his crimes always left a bad taste in my mouth.

[Frontier]

I should hope not, their attempts to portray him as an anti hero or downplay his crimes always left a bad taste in my mouth.

Fair enough, but I feel like on a general basis he's still regarded as a villain/antagonist.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

you talking about the latest run by Hill? if your basing off this issue, I don't think it's a sufficient follow up. It wasn't bad, it was a decent run on the whole but it doesn't treat Katana with as much depth as this issue does and it overall feels like Batman vs Ra's al Ghul via the Outsiders by the end; which I feel is kinda antithetical to how they are presented here. the Annual is a quick little Katana-focused side quest with Jefferson, it was pretty fun, I'd check that out tho.

I'm talking about the original Barr/Aparo run. I checked out Hill's Outsiders to see if they were doing anything interesting with Black Lightning & Katana, but it largely fell flaw for me.