The Other history of the D.C.

[BohemiaDrinker]

I'm talking about the original Barr/Aparo run. I checked out Hill's Outsiders to see if they were doing anything interesting with Black Lightning & Katana, but it largely fell flaw for me.

It's dated, but it's good.

(I love Winnick's run, but it has little to do with the classic team)

[HsssH]

He talked about how he would have to fight DC editorial because he treated Slade as a villain while editorial wanted him to be an anti-hero/anti-villain. Kinda shocking they let Ridley just straight up go “Slade is a monster and a rapist” knowing that. Guess it goes to show how much DC has changed.

I doubt that much changed. This is out of continuity Black Label mini, while Priest was writing an ongoing. Priest in general is less of a "star" (thou I like him way more) so he'd have to fight more with editors regardless of what he was doing.

I feel like it's more looking at someone else's perception of what the fallout seems to be from their life experience projected onto Batman and Gotham.

Or another result of escalating violence?

As for the idea itself, doesn't it mean that everyone is just ok with Batman beating criminals to death? Like, entire city is ok with mass murderer running around? I understand that it is not really realistic that nobody dies fighting Batman, but it is even less realistic that everyone is just ok with it and intentionally pretends that it never happens.

[Jcogginsa]

I enjoyed Tatsu's voice a lot and the Soultaker as a metaphorical name. That was new to me. I haven't read a lot of her appearances. Overall the Issue played more with expectation that the previous one.

As a Sade fan, I loved the mention.

Ridley going straight for Slade's throat is fantastic. It truly was swept under the rug. Victim blaming, as Ridley says.
It was strange to see Slade among the heroes mourning Superman after that. I wonder if that was deliberate?



Well, it's not in Slade's and Tara's stories anymore. Hasn't been for years now. Even if "everything is canon" which truly only means "what the creators chose is canon". DC won't change what Priest established.

The one who should be made to speak out about it is Wolfman if he never made a statement.

I doubt that much changed. This is out of continuity Black Label mini, while Priest was writing an ongoing. Priest in general is less of a "star" (thou I like him way more) so he'd have to fight more with editors regardless of what he was doing.



Or another result of escalating violence?

As for the idea itself, doesn't it mean that everyone is just ok with Batman beating criminals to death? Like, entire city is ok with mass murderer running around? I understand that it is not really realistic that nobody dies fighting Batman, but it is even less realistic that everyone is just ok with it and intentionally pretends that it never happens.

I mean, if people are willing to ignore all the deaths caused by cops, why not ones caused by Batman?

[Bored at 3:00AM]

It's dated, but it's good.

(I love Winnick's run, but it has little to do with the classic team)

Same here. Winnick's DC stuff was very hot and cold for me, but his Outsiders was of the bright spots for me.

[bat39]

This was probably the best issue of this series so far...or at any rate, it ties with the Black Lightning one as the best. Its a definite step up over the previous one for sure.

I think its interesting to see the DCU from the perspective of someone who's truly an ''outsider'' (pun intended) to the mainstream 'norms' of American society in more ways than one. She's an ethnic minority, a foreigner (and non-citizen) and a woman. When it comes to the heroes of the DCU, she's also an outsider - not a vigilante or a superhero but a warrior to the core, and an ex-assassin. So her perspectives on a lot of things are very interesting to read. And I feel, compared to Jefferson and Mal/Karen, this gives her a certain clarity of thought about herself, her place in the world, and how she perceives the world, that the previous narrators lacked (certainly Mal and Karen did).

She's not trying to examine her role as a superhero, or examine her place in American society. She is relatively free of the biases and hypocricies of the previous narrators (and where she has them, she acknowledges them). She calls a spade a spade, even if the spade is herself. I found it a truly refreshing perspective.

The Batman bit was obviously one of the most interesting parts of the issue. Its the most in-depth exploration of Batman we've seen in this series so far (Jefferson and Karen obviously shared their own takes on him earlier, but they tended to critique Superman more). And, as with a lot of other things in the series, it deconstructs aspects of comic-book lore we've taken for granted, while providing an 'out' that this is (probably) just the perspective of the narrator. So you can choose to interpret this as "Yes, Batman's actions totally lead to a bunch of deaths which everyone in Gotham is okay ignoring" or "Katana is skeptical about whether Batman's methods are truly non-lethal". There's no objective truth here, nor does there need to be.

Katana really spares no one - Batman, Deathstroke, Superman, the United States, Japan - but she's ready to give credit where its due, particularly in the case of Batman and Superman. I've waited to see how Superman's death would be tackled in this series, and while it doesn't get a lot of focus, I think Ridley does a good job conveying just how monumental an event it was in the wider DCU, and just how shattering it was to the collective psyche of the superhero community.

(As a side-note, I found a couple of things off about the funeral scene - which is either a brilliant reproduction of the original artwork or is the original artwork. For instance, why is Martian Manhunter standing in the crowds while Robin is a pall-bearer? The other pall-bearers are all the Justice League founders, so it seems off that one of the founders isn't included. Its also odd that its Tim Drake who's a pall-bearer, and not Dick Grayson, who had a close personal relationship with Superman as well. Tim, at that point, probably barely knew Superman. I just found that a bit odd).

I am curious about those final pages though. Some of the designs looked a bit...New 52-ish. So are we going to see the New 52 era covered in this series as well, with Montoya and Jefferson's daughter? Would be interesting to see how they contextualize it in terms of the larger history. I did wonder if Katana's claims at being 'reborn' at the end was also supposed to symbolically represent the dawn of the New 52 era in some sense. Though maybe I was just reading too much into it.

Overall, a great issue, and one that really leaves me looking forward to Montoya's turn the next time round. I have no doubt we have a lot more great exploration of Batman coming up, given that we will be heading to Gotham proper now!

[Aahz]

I think its interesting to see the DCU from the perspective of someone who's truly an ''outsider'' (pun intended) to the mainstream 'norms' of American society in more ways than one. She's an ethnic minority, a foreigner (and non-citizen) and a woman. When it comes to the heroes of the DCU, she's also an outsider - not a vigilante or a superhero but a warrior to the core, and an ex-assassin.

The ex-assassin thing is iirc also no part of her original origin story.

I am curious about those final pages though. Some of the designs looked a bit...New 52-ish. So are we going to see the New 52 era covered in this series as well, with Montoya and Jefferson's daughter? Would be interesting to see how they contextualize it in terms of the larger history. I did wonder if Katana's claims at being 'reborn' at the end was also supposed to symbolically represent the dawn of the New 52 era in some sense. Though maybe I was just reading too much into it.

Wouldn't really make much sense, Jefferson's daughter didn't exist in the new 52 and Montoya was pretty irrelevant.

Both had their most important stories in the 2000s.

[Hypestyle]

how many issues are left?

[sifighter]

how many issues are left?

Two right? One for Renee Montoya and the other for Black Lightning’s daughter Thunder/Anissa

[Alkaeus]

how many issues are left?

Two, one spotlighting Renee Montoya (which I believe takes place roughly from the mid-90s to early 00s) and the last starring one of Jefferson's daughters (I believe Anissa/Thunder in the early-to-late 00s).

[Robotman]

This was a very poignant issue considering the current social climate and the terrible increase in anti-Asian hate crimes.

I really enjoyed this book but overall I do prefer Katana’s sword to have supernatural properties. It makes her way more interesting in a comic book sense.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I'm hoping this comic gets another season exploring other characters.

[Jcogginsa]

(As a side-note, I found a couple of things off about the funeral scene - which is either a brilliant reproduction of the original artwork or is the original artwork. For instance, why is Martian Manhunter standing in the crowds while Robin is a pall-bearer? The other pall-bearers are all the Justice League founders, so it seems off that one of the founders isn't included. Its also odd that its Tim Drake who's a pall-bearer, and not Dick Grayson, who had a close personal relationship with Superman as well. Tim, at that point, probably barely knew Superman. I just found that a bit odd).

I mean, the biggest issue is that Darkseid was there.

[HandofPrometheus]

I'm hoping this comic gets another season exploring other characters.

Omg yes. I need one for Bronze Tiger, Vixen, Dr. Light, and Aqualad/Black Manta.

[bat39]

I mean, the biggest issue is that Darkseid was there.

Really? I DID NOT spot that! (I was more focused on the text and the pall-bearers).

Did Darkseid really attend the funeral in the original story?

Omg yes. I need one for Bronze Tiger, Vixen, Dr. Light, and Aqualad/Black Manta.

I'd add John Stewart to the list. I definitely want his perspective on things, to contrast with Jefferson's.

I wonder if Kate Kate could qualify. I mean she's relatively 'new' compared to the other characters being showcased. But she's also been around a solid 15 years now as a character. I think Kate could offer an interesting perspective as someone who is priveleged in terms of wealth (and being a white woman), and yet is a member of the LGBT community and a religious minority (being Jewish). She's also someone who's experienced discrimination due to her orientation. Then again, I'm not sure how much she's interacted meaningfully with the wider DCU to comment on it.

[chamber-music]

Omg yes. I need one for Bronze Tiger, Vixen, Dr. Light, and Aqualad/Black Manta.

I would like to read a Bronze Tiger history

Even if Tara was the duplicitous sociopath Slade claimed to her to be, she was an underaged supremely troubled child while he was old enough to be her grandfather with a long and established track record for manipulation, gaslighting, abuse, coercion and being a lying liar who lies.

Tara being bad doesn’t negate Slade being a monster in the slightest

The badass line felt like a non-subtle dig at the fans that are overly obsessed with that type of thing.