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  1. #61
    BCB 4sake Baned's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kurenai24 View Post
    This is great and all but is this the only effort DC Comics is gonna show these characters in 2018 b/c if so this is the bare minimum of what should be done with these characters.



    B/c when talking about minorities people usually are only discussing racial minorities not religious minorities.

    And before someone says that Jewish people are racial minorities as well, not in the United States they're not, in the United States, you're steretypical jewish person looks white, and most likely ticks the box that says "white (non-hispanic)"

    Saying all of that tho if they included Supergirl of all people into the story, they could have afforded to add some Jewish heroes, I mean seriously Supergirl ...I scoff.

    Quote Originally Posted by kurenai24 View Post
    The Io9 comment section for the article about this miniseries were naming a few.



    Does DC comics have alien characters who doesn't look white or how about an alien character who can't make themselves look human, to me they would be more deserving of that spot than Supergirl.

    Also Supergirl being well known is irrelevant b/c most minority heroes aren't well known and if that status mattered for this book then DC should have included Cyborg and if he is in the book, then he should have been mentioned but obviously him being well known does not matter so neither does Supergirl.

    Her being female is also a non-factor Vixen's female too and so is Renee.

    Her religion while real in the comics is fake, and would be an allegory for Jewish or even Muslim individuals but why do an allegory for religious discrimination or struggle when you can have a Jewish character or a Muslim character like Simon.

    Same thing if we use Supergirl as an immigrant allegory, why use her when there are probably minority characters DC has more than likely kept on the shelf that can give that story.

    So I scoff b/c she sticks out like a sore thumb, if DC Comics doesn't have a non-humanoid alien character then I guess that's why she's here.


    Can't agree more...

  2. #62
    ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦ Godlike13's Avatar
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    There’s Starfire.

  3. #63
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I do think Supergirl kind of stands out here, but if she was Ridley's choice to use then I'm open to seeing how he utilizes her here.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I do think Supergirl kind of stands out here, but if she was Ridley's choice to use then I'm open to seeing how he utilizes her here.
    I agree with you.

  5. #65
    Astonishing Member 9th.'s Avatar
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    Count me in
    Reading List (Super behind but reading them nonetheless):
    DC: Currently figuring that out
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    Image: Killadelphia, Nightmare Blog
    Other: The Antagonist, Something is Killing the Children, Avatar: TLAB
    Manga: My Hero Academia, MHA: Vigilanties, Soul Eater: the Perfect Edition, Berserk, Hunter X Hunter, Witch Hat Atelier, Kaiju No. 8

  6. #66
    DARKSEID LAUGHS... Crazy Diamond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
    It's kind of telling how people choose to ignore Supergirl's background because she happens to look like the majority population in the US. Proves the only aspect people really care about when it comes to diversity is the physical appearance. Diversity is supposed to cover any type of ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, cultural background, political or religious ideology, yet if the character happens to be white and straight, they don't get a seat at the table.
    White , straight, people whether in fiction or in reality have always had a seat at the table in this country.

  7. #67
    Ultimate Member Johnny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy Diamond View Post
    White , straight, people whether in fiction or in reality have always had a seat at the table in this country.
    So everything does indeed boil down to her physical appearance then? Kara being one of the few survivors from a dead culture instantly becomes irrelevant just because she happens to resemble most of the people in the country she took refuge in, so she has no place being in this type of series only because of the way she looks?
    Last edited by Johnny; 01-14-2018 at 12:56 PM.

  8. #68
    Death becomes you Osiris-Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4sake Baned View Post
    Can't agree more...
    That a character should be excluded based on their looks? So much for tolerance. You do realize that for decades Black, Asian, and Latin characters were excluded from comic book just because of they way they looked.
    So now you also want a character excluded merely because she looks like a Northern European.

  9. #69
    Incredible Member HereNThere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kurenai24 View Post
    This is great and all but is this the only effort DC Comics is gonna show these characters in 2018 b/c if so this is the bare minimum of what should be done with these characters.
    I'm looking forward to this, but this is my main issue. I'm hoping they plan to actually use these characters more this year in anticipation to this series at least.

    As for Supergirl, I think her main issue is that her status as an immigrant doesn't really seem to have caused her much social strife as she seems to be well acclimated to life on Earth. Maybe I'm wrong though.

    Has her series actually explored Kryptonian culture and how it differs from Earth's, making her stand out more? Has she had any social faux pas because of the difference? I know language probably isn't much of a problem due to the technology and her intelligence, but has it explored idioms she might not be aware of? Or jokes she might not get or the inverse, where she makes a reference and no one gets it? Has she actually been shown to practice Rao, through prayer or otherwise? Or show that she has some conflicts some of the religious philosophies on Earth? If her series is exploring those thing, I think I might start picking it up. If not, well, why not choose someone else who actually shows more of those experiences? Her being white and straight isn't a problem in itself, obviously. People floated around Ragman and Hal Jordan in this very thread. It just seems like Supergirl herself doesn't offer much for this type of book.

    Then there is the fact that, while allegories are all well and good, I think a lot of us are still looking for a bit of realism in who is represented and how they are represented, at least, in this instance. I'd say it's along the lines folks thinking that Martian Manhunter could count as representation because he shape-shifts into a black dude every once and a while.

    That being said, she is just one of the initial characters mentioned, so there are most likely going to be more characters who will show this. Just seems weird to lead with her given the book's premise.
    Last edited by HereNThere; 01-14-2018 at 03:01 PM.

  10. #70
    DARKSEID LAUGHS... Crazy Diamond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
    So everything does indeed boil down to her physical appearance then? Kara being one of the few survivors from a dead culture instantly becomes irrelevant just because she happens to resemble most of the people in the country she took refuge in, so she has no place being in this type of series only because of the way she looks?
    When Kryptonian becomes a real culture and **** let me know.

  11. #71
    Ultimate Member Johnny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy Diamond View Post
    When Kryptonian becomes a real culture and **** let me know.
    It makes no difference that Supergirl or Superman are fictional characters from a fictional planet, the concept of the characters is very much grounded in reality. It's aliens trying to integrate within a different society. Siegel and Shuster were two white guys yet they had experienced bigotry for being Jewish. Superman's arch enemy is a bigot who thinks aliens have no place on Earth and can be rather extreme in his methods of expressing himself about it. It goes beyond the surface level of Clark and Kara's physical appearance, it's about how they struggle to conform to a world that can never truly understand or relate to them. That's all you need to make Supergirl part of this series.

    When you learn to stop judging someone purely on the way they look, let me know.
    Last edited by Johnny; 01-14-2018 at 06:31 PM.

  12. #72
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HereNThere View Post
    I'm looking forward to this, but this is my main issue. I'm hoping they plan to actually use these characters more this year in anticipation to this series at least.

    As for Supergirl, I think her main issue is that her status as an immigrant doesn't really seem to have caused her much social strife as she seems to be well acclimated to life on Earth. Maybe I'm wrong though.

    Has her series actually explored Kryptonian culture and how it differs from Earth's, making her stand out more? Has she had any social faux pas because of the difference? I know language probably isn't much of a problem due to the technology and her intelligence, but has it explored idioms she might not be aware of? Or jokes she might not get or the inverse, where she makes a reference and no one gets it? Has she actually been shown to practice Rao, through prayer or otherwise?
    Or show that she has some conflicts some of the religious philosophies on Earth? If her series is exploring those thing, I think I might start picking it up. If not, well, why not choose someone else who actually shows more of those experiences? Her being white and straight isn't a problem in itself, obviously. People floated around Ragman and Hal Jordan in this very thread. It just seems like Supergirl herself doesn't offer much for this type of book.

    Then there is the fact that, while allegories are all well and good, I think a lot of us are still looking for a bit of realism in who is represented and how they are represented, at least, in this instance. I'd say it's along the lines folks thinking that Martian Manhunter could count as representation because he shape-shifts into a black dude every once and a while.

    That being said, she is just one of the initial characters mentioned, so there are most likely going to be more characters who will show this. Just seems weird to lead with her given the book's premise.
    I think her solo under Steve Orlando has touched on this, and the TV show as well to some extent, though I also believe it was a factor in her New 52 run where she first arrived from Krytpon and couldn't even speak English for several issues.

    Personally I'm okay with this since I'm under the impression that Ridley is the one who chose to use her, so I'm sure he has his own ideas about handling Supergirl and how that ties into his overall themes with this book.

    I doubt DC forced him to use Kara, since this doesn't seem like that kind of project, though even if they did I would guess Ridley was willing to work with them on that point. But given they gave the Green Lantern Earth One writers the leeway not to use Hal Jordan if they didn't want too, I still doubt that was the case.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy Diamond View Post
    White , straight, people whether in fiction or in reality have always had a seat at the table in this country.


    It’s also not like events haven’t been explored through their eyes for decades

  14. #74
    Astonishing Member Sodam Yat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robotman View Post
    Harley is Jewish. It could be argued that she’s more prominent than Hal.

    Ragman is also Jewish.
    She always came off more prominent because she associates herself with Batman. She's a very recognizable character from the Batman series.

    Quote Originally Posted by kurenai24 View Post
    This is great and all but is this the only effort DC Comics is gonna show these characters in 2018 b/c if so this is the bare minimum of what should be done with these characters.
    Couldn't have said it any better. That's one of my complaints. There should be more done with these characters. DC could've done better. And assuming it's coming out around December, it's even more upsetting we have to look forward to a book coming out nearly a year from now.

    Quote Originally Posted by HereNThere View Post
    I'm looking forward to this, but this is my main issue. I'm hoping they plan to actually use these characters more this year in anticipation to this series at least.

    As for Supergirl, I think her main issue is that her status as an immigrant doesn't really seem to have caused her much social strife as she seems to be well acclimated to life on Earth. Maybe I'm wrong though.

    Has her series actually explored Kryptonian culture and how it differs from Earth's, making her stand out more? Has she had any social faux pas because of the difference? I know language probably isn't much of a problem due to the technology and her intelligence, but has it explored idioms she might not be aware of? Or jokes she might not get or the inverse, where she makes a reference and no one gets it? Has she actually been shown to practice Rao, through prayer or otherwise? Or show that she has some conflicts some of the religious philosophies on Earth? If her series is exploring those thing, I think I might start picking it up. If not, well, why not choose someone else who actually shows more of those experiences? Her being white and straight isn't a problem in itself, obviously. People floated around Ragman and Hal Jordan in this very thread. It just seems like Supergirl herself doesn't offer much for this type of book.

    Then there is the fact that, while allegories are all well and good, I think a lot of us are still looking for a bit of realism in who is represented and how they are represented, at least, in this instance. I'd say it's along the lines folks thinking that Martian Manhunter could count as representation because he shape-shifts into a black dude every once and a while.

    That being said, she is just one of the initial characters mentioned, so there are most likely going to be more characters who will show this. Just seems weird to lead with her given the book's premise.
    Some of those instances with Supergirl has happened. But it depends on the writer. Sometimes her lack of perception to Earth's culture to show how much of an outsider she is, is almost no different than watching those sitcoms when a female portrays as a dumb blonde. I think it depends how she's written.

    But I don't really have a problem with Supergirl in this series if she's written good and fits well in the story.

  15. #75
    It sucks to be right BohemiaDrinker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
    It makes no difference that Supergirl or Superman are fictional characters from a fictional planet, the concept of the characters is very much grounded in reality. It's aliens trying to integrate within a different society. Siegel and Shuster were two white guys yet they had experienced bigotry for being Jewish. Superman's arch enemy is a bigot who thinks aliens have no place on Earth and can be rather extreme in his methods of expressing himself about it. It goes beyond the surface level of Clark and Kara's physical appearance, it's about how they struggle to conform to a world that can never truly understand or relate to them. That's all you need to make Supergirl part of this series.

    When you learn to stop judging someone purely on the way they look, let me know.
    Sorry, but that's really tone-deaf, even if I believe it comes from an honest place (Which I do).

    Putting it simply, using white characters with a fictional history that would place them as a minority is fine as an allegory, and may be even useful to make certain points. But putting them front and center in a series where the focus are characters who are disenfranchised precisely because the way they look is a wrong headed move.

    That said, I'm not oposed to Supergirl being in this series, nor do I think that they'd use her kryptonian origin as a plot point here - if they do, I'll be the first to call BS. What I believe they'll exploit with Supergirl is gender, how she wears the S and has all the powers and all the competence as her cousin, how she's in fact white and young and a model of beauty and perfect by all of our society standards and yet, despite all this, she's is put in a lesser place because of being a female. And that's fine, really, and there'sd no btter character than Supergirl to make that point.
    ConnEr Kent flies. ConnOr Hawke has a bow. Batman's kid is named DamiAn.

    To do spoiler tags, use [ spoil ] at the start of the sentence and [ /spoil ] at the end, without the spaces. You're welcome!

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