Who is the superior telepath: Emma or Non-PF Jean Grey

[rutog98]

Where did Jeen beat Emma in a psychic fight? Any scans of this?

[PhoenixStudies]

Jean was able to transfer her consciousness into Emma's body with her own power. Emma had to use a machine to possess Storm and an electrical interference helped Emma possess Iceman.

[rutog98]

Jean was able to transfer her consciousness into Emma's body with her own power. Emma had to use a machine to possess Storm and an electrical interference helped Emma possess Iceman.

Actually, Emma was stated to be strong enough to do that as well.

Jean, Uncanny 283:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/BlYofWuRoW7...nY5FAfSh=s1600
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/mlzNUHj_5eS...cy924PIn=s1600

Now Emma, Uncanny 284:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/mRZLwEuBNPi...j5o_Qdlg=s1600
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/CrU54OXQLTw...a8LKUmuk=s1600

It should also be noted that Jean was only able to do that to Emma because Emma's mind had already vacated her body or something.

Edit: Here is the scan of that:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-gEk4o8PphY...600/RCO009.jpg

[PhoenixStudies]

A possible future version of Teen Jean defeated Emma and the Cuckoos. Teen Jean then defeated this future adult version of herself.







This possible future version of Teen Jean, so-called Xorna-Jean was even able to defeat a Phoenix possessed Quentin Quire.

[PhoenixStudies]

[rutog98]

You're telling me that Jean beat a possible future version of herself, but then that possible future version beat Emma while Emma was aided by several other telepaths?

I'm going to call PIS. We can see from this thread that any claim of a non-PF Jean being this much more powerful than Emma is utter crap. Heck, Emma has better showings than Jean which makes this whole thing suspicious. We have seen Emma counter Exodus effectively twice while Jean went down like nothing against him. We have seen Emma smash through dozens of psi-blocking tech created by the Dark Beast while Revolution Jean couldn't even get through psi-blocking technology built by the Russian government. We have seen Emma perform psychic surgery on a major scale. We have even seen Emma hold her own for a little while against the Dark Phoenix in psi-combat. I think its completely devaluing Emma to prop up Jean. This kind of stuff happens often in comics to characters.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/aQ99128cVqb...chTPY0Z6=s1600
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/7oq3-DnYb2L...R91_uSNE=s1600

I don't see how any incarnation of Jean without the PF can beat Emma plus other telepaths at the same time. I just don't buy it.

[rutog98]

This is starting to be a pattern with Jean now which is going to be hard for her future feats without the PF to have any credence. Even Magneto was written down for Jean when she was able to get into his head given his history. Here is an earlier post I did in this thread about the Magneto situation:

No, she gained Psylocke's telepathy and Betsy gained her TK.



Here, Magneto harnesses his magnetic powers to jam Jean's telepathy rendering her completely useless:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/8iQJlib7KhN...cKF6muVG=s1600

Here, we see Magneto, through willpower alone, stalemate a TP assault from Xavier:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/iwcxJfumk_v...vylM34YB=s1600

Xavier is MUCH more powerful and MUCH more skilled than a non-Phoenix Force Jean Grey.

Here, we seen Magneto beat Phoenix Force Jean Grey (her powers were scaled back in this story to rival Xavier's):
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-axQl7T_rpY...ZSQWjSoU=s1600
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/...en01817rd4.jpg

Here, when most of Xavier's powers was being used to work a suit that enabled him to walk, he added the remainder of his psi to Jean's full telepathic power. Even with Jean's full power combined with a portion of Xavier's, PLUS Xavier instructing her, they could not get into Magneto's head until he was distracted by Gambit throwing an exploding card in his face:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/F6SBRf5hkfS...8mfqA2dx=s1600
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/7oC1VROEpvP...sEfdnhBI=s1600
Then on top of all of this, he gained a helmet later on that has psi-blocking tech built into it. There is no way Jean is getting through all of that without some kind of PIS or unless she catches him off-guard, or unless he is distracted.

[Peanutsinspace]

I don't see how any incarnation of Jean without the PF can beat Emma plus other telepaths at the same time. I just don't buy it.

That's great and you don't have to but you started a thread asking a question and it was answered over and over again by the majority. You chose to ignore that and continued posting your scans of 90's Jean fighting 90's Exodus and "current" Emma doing the same and then pointing and saying "See! See! I win!"

Then *you* are deciding what is in *your* opinion PIS and immediately dismissing it because it doesn't fit *your* narrative and what *you* want the outcome to be. You keep saying that you don't care what someone says on panel or in a book but then you were real quick to mention what Claremont and Morrison said about things.

We all get it. You don't like Jean Grey. Cool, good for you. Now just let the people who *do* enjoy her and Emma Frost go about our day.

I'm over people trying to take two amazing and powerful characters and pit them against each other, I don't care who has better feats or who's more powerful, all I want to see is Jean Grey and Emma Frost in the same book because when these two women are together, they are incredible. Threads like this only serve to keep the two sides antagonistic.

This thread is stupid ridiculous *but* I freaking love that it brought Jean fans and Emma fans together and we all pretty much were able to burn away what doesn't work.

[Fantasy Free Me]

Again, the Jeen beat Xorna who beat Emma and the Cuckoos scans don't seem fair to be honest. Emma's powers were broken at the time, reason why she was using the Cuckoos TP pretty much.

[PhoenixStudies]

[rutog98]

That's great and you don't have to but you started a thread asking a question and it was answered over and over again by the majority. You chose to ignore that and continued posting your scans of 90's Jean fighting 90's Exodus and "current" Emma doing the same and then pointing and saying "See! See! I win!"

Then *you* are deciding what is in *your* opinion PIS and immediately dismissing it because it doesn't fit *your* narrative and what *you* want the outcome to be. You keep saying that you don't care what someone says on panel or in a book but then you were real quick to mention what Claremont and Morrison said about things.

We all get it. You don't like Jean Grey. Cool, good for you. Now just let the people who *do* enjoy her and Emma Frost go about our day.

I'm over people trying to take two amazing and powerful characters and pit them against each other, I don't care who has better feats or who's more powerful, all I want to see is Jean Grey and Emma Frost in the same book because when these two women are together, they are incredible. Threads like this only serve to keep the two sides antagonistic.

This thread is stupid ridiculous *but* I freaking love that it brought Jean fans and Emma fans together and we all pretty much were able to burn away what doesn't work.

I'm sorry, but you're dead wrong on this. The facts are facts. Jean Grey is FAR weaker than Phoenix Force Jean Grey. There is no comparison whatsoever. Dark Phoenix was able to battle Xavier on all the infinite planes of existence simultaneously. She ate stars for breakfast and could open stargates and everything. For Emma to be able to hold her own against a near-Dark Phoenix level Phoenix Force Jean Grey for at least a little while puts her well beyond a non-Phoenix Force Jean Grey beating her alongside other telepaths. When I made my assertion about it being PIS for Jean to beat the combined power of Emma plus several other psis, I used canon to back it up. You guys are going by emotion and ignoring everything in Emma's past that refutes something like this happening since most of you favor Jean personally. This would be especially true if other fanbases knew all of the Emma feats I've pointed out in this thread and compared them with non-PF Jean Grey's REAL feats (not the PF feats her fans want her to have to elevate her to levels where she is not).

I'm just going to tell you something, if the fanbases of other characters figure this stuff out about what's going on with Jean that I'm figuring out, she'd ggo down in their eyes as they'd start to see the PIS as well. They would start to question her future showings against other powerful characters. They are not going to be biased in favor of Jean as they will be more objective. While it is true that I don't like Jean's character, I do try to be fair to her and other characters as well. Heck, some of you know how much I dislike Magneto, yet I gave him his props when he was devalued for Jean. I may dislike Magneto even more than Jean at that. It sickens me to stand up for him, but I did because the facts supported him.

Likewise, I would support Jean over another character if I truly thought Jean was a more powerful mutant. I don't like her, but I would be fair to her. I'm not trying to cheat the character or her fans out of anything.

Again, there is no way that a non-PF Jean Grey can beat a team of telepaths that has Emma on its roster. Heck, I have shown that there is more than enough evidence to make a stronger argument for Emma beating a non-PF Jean Grey solo than losing to her.

[rutog98]

What does this prove? Emma wasn't hurt here and she was not trying to fight back.

[rutog98]

Again, the Jeen beat Xorna who beat Emma and the Cuckoos scans don't seem fair to be honest. Emma's powers were broken at the time, reason why she was using the Cuckoos TP pretty much.

If this is true, then that's one heck of a fact for them to be leaving out. This is extremely dishonest of them and it only shows desperation on their part.

[Disciple of Redd]

Rutgo has unearthed the conspiracy and now Jean Grey will be the laughing stock of the battle boards, apparently.

Ultimately, as long as Emma is the one taking the Scott burden and Jean is alive and having adventures, that's all that matters.

X-Men Red #1 is in less than a month, you guys.

Tom Taylor is dope and so is Jean.

Pick it up!

[rutog98]

Rutgo has unearthed the conspiracy and now Jean Grey will be the laughing stock of the battle boards, apparently.

Ultimately, as long as Emma is the one taking the Scott burden and Jean is alive and having adventures, that's all that matters.

X-Men Red #1 is in less than a month, you guys.

Tom Taylor is dope and so is Jean.

Pick it up!

Hey, back when I used to debate more frequently on battle boards, I messed up Magneto's credibility with plenty of posters by pointing out all the PIS surrounding his character and the made up feats his fanbase came up with. I don't care about it enough anymore to go that route with Jean, but somebody may do it if they figure it out, lol! So, don't mock.