Is the superhero cinema saturation point nigh?

[DrNewGod]

A recent CBR column discusses how durable the superhero is on Cinema. Your thoughts?

[AJBopp]

Check the presales for Black Panther.

[Soubhagya]

I don't agree with the likes of Jodie Foster. I respect Jodie Foster a lot but sometimes intelligent people can make foolish statements. Even if people make artsy films they desire to make money. No one spends money to make films without expecting some money.

Its not that original films aren't being made. Its just that people aren't going to see it. At least not much as the people at Hollywood want to. Nice Guys is a prime example. It was awesome. But how many people went to see it? Its more frustrating when the same people criticizing the lack of originality don't go to see those original films which come out.

How many superhero films come out each year? 2017 had six. And how many hollywood films came out in the same year? Around 200 to 300 i guess. That's a small fraction of the total. Its not that a film like Taxi Driver had a 100 million dollar budget at that time. Such films come out each year even now and both type of films can co-exist. Its just that people see what they want. Its fine to dislike something but to call someone less intelligent just because they like a kind of film which you don't like is totally wrong.

I don't see a saturation point in near time. But they do need to make unique and good films. If the films fail to entertain they would loose out. But going the way of the Western is not something i can see. Something like MCU manages to resonate with audiences all around the world. It came at the perfect time when there is a saturation of things like the internet or smartphones and the world is becoming much smaller. Superheroes resonate with people across all cultures in way few other genres do. Superheroes both DC, Marvel and others have tonnes of material to take inspiration from. If the superhero genre fails i don't see it happening anytime soon.

[DrNewGod]

...I don't see a saturation point in near time. But they do need to make unique and good films. If the films fail to entertain they would loose out.

I double agree here. If studios get lazy or complacent, they could damage the brands that are most viable for films. Batman was practically rendered radioactive for a while.

But going the way of the Western is not something i can see. Something like MCU manages to resonate with audiences all around the world. It came at the perfect time when there is a saturation of things like the internet or smartphones and the world is becoming much smaller. Superheroes resonate with people across all cultures in way few other genres do. Superheroes both DC, Marvel and others have tonnes of material to take inspiration from. If the superhero genre fails i don't see it happening anytime soon.

That raises a point, there was a time when the Western resonated with audiences all around the world. How many forms of the story can be told before it gets stale?

[Buried Alien]

I double agree here. If studios get lazy or complacent, they could damage the brands that are most viable for films. Batman was practically rendered radioactive for a while.

A relatively short "while." Not a decade passed between the disaster that was BATMAN AND ROBIN and the glorious rebirth heralded by BATMAN BEGINS. Only eleven years separated B&R from the high water mark of THE DARK KNIGHT.

In contrast, it took much longer for the SUPERMAN film franchise to recover from SUPERMAN IV.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[AJBopp]

A relatively short "while." Not a decade passed between the disaster that was BATMAN AND ROBIN and the glorious rebirth heralded by BATMAN BEGINS. Only eleven years separated B&R from the high water mark of THE DARK KNIGHT.

In contrast, it took much longer for the SUPERMAN film franchise to recover from SUPERMAN IV.

Not sure I can entirely agree with this. The recovery time for Superman had a lot more to do with not knowing what to do with him than bad feelings from the last movie. There were too many ideas about black suits, Nicholas Cage, and completely different origins that started development, but thankfully never finished development.

I also think that, while it's too soon to be sure, the Batfleck version might end up regarded as radioactive itself.

[Carabas]

I think saturation point was reached a few years back.

Which is not the same at all superhero movies now being doomed or less popular or something like that.

[Buried Alien]

I also think that, while it's too soon to be sure, the Batfleck version might end up regarded as radioactive itself.

Affleck's portrayal of Batman onscreen generally seems well-received, unless you're referring to the cloud hanging over Affleck's personal reputation in recent months after revelations about Affleck's conduct in his extracurricular activities.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Soubhagya]

I double agree here. If studios get lazy or complacent, they could damage the brands that are most viable for films. Batman was practically rendered radioactive for a while.

That raises a point, there was a time when the Western resonated with audiences all around the world. How many forms of the story can be told before it gets stale?

Yes quality is important. Just as variety. Formulaic things are doing really well. But if everyone keeps doing the same thing and each film in a year are the same they would start loosing their edge.

I doubt Western films resonated around the world. Take two countries China and India for instance. They were not big there. (Or perhaps not released there). But MCU films do pretty well in these regions. They are not that big but there is a significant success which keeps growing. Both Thor Ragnarok and Spider-man: Homecoming earned a lot in India. They were not in the top ten but they saw a significant increase, more then anyone predicted. Spider-man was always popular in India. Thor was a surprise.

Though Westerns inspired films, which are basically western themes and ideas adapted to the respective cultures had seen successes. But among films made by the Hollywood studios itself, superhero genre is something which is working irrespective of the country. But then i said few genres, not just superhero genre.

New ideas is a question mark. Surely there is a lot of variety in the comic books themselves. You have a lot of older films too. I read an article a while ago which compared Logan to 'Children Of Men'. There are similarities. So, in my opinion there is a lot of variety available. Take even one superhero like Superman. In his history he had been a defender of the downtrodden in his first incarnation. Which turned to sci-fi storytelling in the 60s. Trying to be socially relevant in the 70s. The mythological style of storytelling changed to something resembling a soap opera in the 90s. I gave a very general idea but its just one example of what the genre can do. Keep a healthy mix of the conventional and the unconventional and the superhero genre can do even better.

In fact, i think there is space for a superhero film each month. Most wide release films nowadays, make most of their money within 3 to 4 weeks. After that the numbers are not significant enough to trouble a new release. Even the biggest and most well received films drop to numbers within 3-4 weeks, which under normal circumstances shall not trouble the next wide release film. The question is how many can they make each year.

So if we are speaking about the maximum films per year by a studio then its possible that we have reached saturation. (Though DC could do much better.) But more space is available.

[regnak]

No and it is likely the number of SH movies coming out will go down with Fox going out of the business. Marvel doesn't have to make movies to hold onto the rights.

[mace11]

How many superhero films come out each year? 2017 had six.

I think 7 altogether if you count power rangers or lego batman.

[Osiris-Rex]

How many superhero films come out each year? 2017 had six. And how many hollywood films came out in the same year? Around 200 to 300 i guess. That's a small fraction of the total. Its not that a film like Taxi Driver had a 100 million dollar budget at that time. Such films come out each year even now and both type of films can co-exist. Its just that people see what they want. Its fine to dislike something but to call someone less intelligent just because they like a kind of film which you don't like is totally wrong.

I don't see a saturation point in near time. But they do need to make unique and good films. If the films fail to entertain they would loose out. But going the way of the Western is not something i can see. Something like MCU manages to resonate with audiences all around the world. It came at the perfect time when there is a saturation of things like the internet or smartphones and the world is becoming much smaller. Superheroes resonate with people across all cultures in way few other genres do. Superheroes both DC, Marvel and others have tonnes of material to take inspiration from. If the superhero genre fails i don't see it happening anytime soon.

Based on the films listed on Box Office Mojo, there were 724 films that came out in 2017. Seven were superhero movies if you count Power Rangers. In 2016 there were 736 movies, and also seven superhero movies.
In 2015 there were 705 movies, three of which were superhero movies. You get the idea. Now look at the top box office. Of the top 10 movies in 2017, five were superhero movies, with Logan at 11. For 2016 there
were four in the top 10.

A relatively short "while." Not a decade passed between the disaster that was BATMAN AND ROBIN and the glorious rebirth heralded by BATMAN BEGINS. Only eleven years separated B&R from the high water mark of THE DARK KNIGHT.

In contrast, it took much longer for the SUPERMAN film franchise to recover from SUPERMAN IV.

But its not like superhero movies were dead between Batman & Robin and Batman Begins. Between them there was Spawn, Steel, Blade, X-Men, Blade II, Spider-Man, Daredevil, X2: X-Men United, Hulk, Hellboy,
The Punisher, Spider-Man II, Catwoman, Blade: Trinity and Elektra.

[Powerboy]

Based on the films listed on Box Office Mojo, there were 724 films that came out in 2017. Seven were superhero movies if you count Power Rangers. In 2016 there were 736 movies, and also seven superhero movies.
In 2015 there were 705 movies, three of which were superhero movies. You get the idea. Now look at the top box office. Of the top 10 movies in 2017, five were superhero movies, with Logan at 11. For 2016 there
were four in the top 10.



But its not like superhero movies were dead between Batman & Robin and Batman Begins. Between them there was Spawn, Steel, Blade, X-Men, Blade II, Spider-Man, Daredevil, X2: X-Men United, Hulk, Hellboy,
The Punisher, Spider-Man II, Catwoman, Blade: Trinity and Elektra.

This nicely makes the point. Jodie Foster and others have the saturation of smaller movies. In fact, superhero movies are outnumbered about a hundred to one. It's just that they tend to be more popular than most of the other movies.

We can talk about westerns and action movies and the superhero genre but they are all Action movies in a way. For a time, they were focused on a certain time and place, a mythical version of the Old West exemplified by John Wayne, Tom Mix, Gene Autry and Clint Eastwood among many other people. The westerns clearly had sub-genre shifts even within their genre from the singing cowboys to the Duke to the Spahgetti westerns to the more authentic westerns exemplified by "Unforgiven" though that was way after the genre had faded.

But the Western genre only faded in the sense that it dropped the specific time and place and instead became the Action movies of Arnold, Norris, Seagal, Diesal and so on as time passed.

The Action movie genre is still alive and yet it has also evolved into the Superhero action movie which is the most versatile of all of the manifestations of the action movie so far. I think we may eventually see fewer superhero movies per year but I don't think it's going to vanish anytime soon.

Also, I can see the first X-Men movie or, far better, the first Spider-Man movie in 2002, as the true glorious rebirth of the superhero genre.

[shades of eternity]

honest even if the era of superheroes end, they did the impossible and left a legacy.

we should all be so lucky.

[mburns]

This nicely makes the point. Jodie Foster and others have the saturation of smaller movies. In fact, superhero movies are outnumbered about a hundred to one. It's just that they tend to be more popular than most of the other movies.

We can talk about westerns and action movies and the superhero genre but they are all Action movies in a way. For a time, they were focused on a certain time and place, a mythical version of the Old West exemplified by John Wayne, Tom Mix, Gene Autry and Clint Eastwood among many other people. The westerns clearly had sub-genre shifts even within their genre from the singing cowboys to the Duke to the Spahgetti westerns to the more authentic westerns exemplified by "Unforgiven" though that was way after the genre had faded.

But the Western genre only faded in the sense that it dropped the specific time and place and instead became the Action movies of Arnold, Norris, Seagal, Diesal and so on as time passed.

The Action movie genre is still alive and yet it has also evolved into the Superhero action movie which is the most versatile of all of the manifestations of the action movie so far. I think we may eventually see fewer superhero movies per year but I don't think it's going to vanish anytime soon.

Also, I can see the first X-Men movie or, far better, the first Spider-Man movie in 2002, as the true glorious rebirth of the superhero genre.

This right here. Westerns didn't die out so much as they died out as action films. The violent cop dramas like Dirty Harry replaced them in the 70's followed by the one man army films of Stallone and Schwarzenegger in the 80's and now superhero movies. Western's are still being made but more as prestige films like Unforgiven or the True Grit remake.

Superhero movies are far more flexible than Western's as action films. They can be science fiction, vigilante films, magical fantasy etc. They are not tied down by period or technology like westerns and can be constantly updated for current times. I don't expect them to go the way of the western anytime soon. The only problem they may come across is the cost of making them.