WW vs Kryptonians

[Stanlos]

I think we saw the answer to this question in the Justice League movie.

She has no chance whatsoever. Besides the fact that she can't fly, her lasso had no real effect on Superman. Her vaunted speed was no match for Superman as she couldn't even bang her bracers together before Supes grabbed her arms and they did the head butting routine.

Lets turn this around...do people think she could have done the same to the League as Superman did to them if the roles were reversed? Not in a million years would be my opinion.

So...we know the DCEU doesn't think much about Wonder Woman, at least with respect to Superman. If they did, they would have her fly and show off her 'best melee fighter' status. Where in the 3 movies that she has been in has she shown this skill? It isn't Doomsday since he wasn't shown to be a skillful fighter. It is all lip service as usual.

That's weird because what we saw in the Justice League movie stood out precisely because of its departure from the character's historically documented design, her own stories, Superman's stories, and the DCEU previous entries.

Kryltonuans pose no real problem for WW unless you handicap her by removing some of her standard gear or create some constraints.

Otherwise she easily possesses the necessary power levels, skills, and abilities to successfully deal with him (as she has done several times)

[Joker Venom]

yes it circumvents his invulnerability so technically a magical lightning bolt should fry him like a ordinary lightning strike would do to a normal person. Anyway no matter how you rationalise it C.M. has been able to knock him out taking advantage of this vulnerability

Yes, and by a combination of luck (Captain Marvel's own words), and sucker-punching Superman. Not by standing toe to toe.

[marhawkman]

Karate Kid. Non-powered. Riiight.

Yah, I know, the comics don't consider him metahuman or powered, but he's got such ridiculous Charles Atlas superpowers it's silly.

Karate kid vs Equus... ugh...

Equus was a cyborg created to fight Superman. He wasn't as powerful as a Kryptonian, but strong enough to put up a fight against a Kryptonian.

KK.... cut his arm off with his bare hands using a karate chop.... A guy with metal plates on his skin and reinforced bones.... bare hands, no weapons, no super strength. WTF..... it's not Bat-god, it's SUPER Bat-god.

Well if you take logic out of the window as most writers do most fighters even superhuman fighters have a degree of fighting ability which they show on the rare occasions they lose powers or are at a disadvantage. for example superman has been shown to display knowledge of pressure points to disable a kryptonite batman plus he without superpowers was able to beat kobra who was occupying Batman's body while he himself was occupying kobras body. considering kobra has beaten batman this was the most ridiculous pis. so whether Diana would or wouldn't defeat Shiva or black canary or batwoman will be ultimately decide by the stories demands.

Superman, WW, Zod, Ursa, Faora, Car-Vex, and more... these are people accustomed to fighting others with similar physical ability. It makes no sense for them to NOT have fighting skills.

But one of the standard forms of idiocy is for a writer to assume that the character with superior physical ability relies on that to win.

That said, I'd love to see a story where Circe gives Shiva the strength to match WW.

Now I'm reminded of the "cybernetic blind spot" episode of Ghost in the Shell. The blind spot in question was a form of over confidence. But expecting your opponent to be over confident is just as great a weakness as being overconfident yourself. Battou wasn't overconfident because he knew he could lose if he messed up, because he regularly got beaten. His opponent expected him to be overconfident simply because Battou had better cybernetics. Guess who lost?

[BiteTheBullet]

That's weird because what we saw in the Justice League movie stood out precisely because of its departure from the character's historically documented design, her own stories, Superman's stories, and the DCEU previous entries.

Kryltonuans pose no real problem for WW unless you handicap her by removing some of her standard gear or create some constraints.

Otherwise she easily possesses the necessary power levels, skills, and abilities to successfully deal with him (as she has done several times)

Are you denying what was presented in the movie or trying to make the case that she should be able to handle herself against Superman through her various powers, artifacts and skill in fighting? I am not sure if I understand your comments to my post.

I was just stating that according to the DCEU and by this I mean the Justice League movie, Wonder Woman has no chance against Superman. Same goes for any kryptonian who realizes his full power like Supes on earth.

I would love for Wonder Woman to be able to be an equal to Supes where maybe he wins 6/10 times, but the movie doesn't play out that way. Any vaunted speed or reflexes that Wonder Woman has got nullified by Supermans superspeed. Doesn't matter how skillful Wondy is at fighting, she was moving in slow motion compared to Superman. And the 'best melee fighter in the DCEU' is only lip service, as usual. I have yet to see in any of the movies her vaunted skill as a fighter.

[marhawkman]

Yeah, demi-gods(and pseudo demi-gods) in DC are physically among the strongest metas. So it makes sense for one of them to be strong enough to deck a Kryptonian.

[theoneandonly]

Karate kid vs Equus... ugh...

Equus was a cyborg created to fight Superman. He wasn't as powerful as a Kryptonian, but strong enough to put up a fight against a Kryptonian.

KK.... cut his arm off with his bare hands using a karate chop.... A guy with metal plates on his skin and reinforced bones.... bare hands, no weapons, no super strength. WTF..... it's not Bat-god, it's SUPER Bat-god.
Superman, WW, Zod, Ursa, Faora, Car-Vex, and more... these are people accustomed to fighting others with similar physical ability. It makes no sense for them to NOT have fighting skills.

But one of the standard forms of idiocy is for a writer to assume that the character with superior physical ability relies on that to win.

That said, I'd love to see a story where Circe gives Shiva the strength to match WW.

Now I'm reminded of the "cybernetic blind spot" episode of Ghost in the Shell. The blind spot in question was a form of over confidence. But expecting your opponent to be over confident is just as great a weakness as being overconfident yourself. Battou wasn't overconfident because he knew he could lose if he messed up, because he regularly got beaten. His opponent expected him to be overconfident simply because Battou had better cybernetics. Guess who lost?

well that is what is called writer imposed limitations or conditions to ensure a level playing field.

[marhawkman]

well that is what is called writer imposed limitations or conditions to ensure a level playing field.

Yeah, but if it's dumb it doesn't make for a good story.

[AmiMizuno]

With or without her demi-goddess status how strong should Diana be?

[marhawkman]

I don't really see a reason for here to have different power levels based on that. although, differences in powers, maybe.

But like I said earlier, demi-gods should be able to fight Kryptonians.

[BiteTheBullet]

I don't really see a reason for here to have different power levels based on that. although, differences in powers, maybe.

But like I said earlier, demi-gods should be able to fight Kryptonians.

Maybe in the comics, but not in the movies apparently!

[Phoenixx9]

Maybe in the comics, but not in the movies apparently!

This is true.

In the comics, many different people/groups should be close to/able to fight Kryptonians such as: Daxamites, Wonder Woman, Superwoman, Ultra Boy, Night Girl, Lobo, Martian Manhunter. A long time ago, Colossal Boy, Timber Wolf and Wildfire, while weaker, could take a turn at fighting them too.

[marhawkman]

Yeah the list of "super" people in DC gets longer every year. Sure, Kryptonians are the best... but it's not good story telling if they're unchallengable.

[friendly-fire-press]

Check out Dark Knight 3 The Master Race. There's some great Amazons vs Kryptonians fighting scenes in that

[TimberWolf]

Diana's strength is just below Superman's strength level but her fighting skills should more than makeup for the difference. She literally trained her entire life and should be able to kick Superman's butt. Skill means a great deal in an actual fight. I'm not even going to get into the lame Justice League movie and the disservice it did to WW.

[WonderScott]

Yeah, Diana is definitely super-powered enough and martially-skilled enough to take on Kryptonians. It's a shame that Justice League underpowered her in that regard to promote Superman as "The Man." <sigh>

Supergirl, Superboy, and Power Girl, obviously can take on other Kryptonians, but I'd extend that other characters too, in an "any given Sunday" scenario, that they can physically stop and contain Kryptonians as well. It just makes things more interesting if Daxamites, Martians, Shazam and his siblings, Black Adam, Isis, Osiris, Maxima, Lobo, Wonder Woman, Troia, and Wonder Girl can all hold their own against one another to a certain degree.