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  1. #676
    Extraordinary Member Last Son of Krypton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    There's no truth to the idea that the suit "can't be replaced or revamped". Point of fact, the past 6 years have proven they very much can be. He hasn't fallen completely off the map in that time period because he was wearing an updated costume. So the costume can very much be revamped. They're not bringing them back out of any factual, tangible data suggesting it just can't be changed. They're bringing them back to sync with a huge anniversary and, as silly as it might seem to the layman, use it as an extra piece of hype.
    It makes me wonder what nostalgic stunt they'll pull for his 90th anniversary.

  2. #677
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    The public at large, at least here in France, find Superman utterly ridiculous. He is known for being the big boring dummy who wears his underwears on the outside for the general public. It's probably different in America, but as for myself, I would have died of shame as a five years old if someone had offered me a Superman costume for a birthday party or something. It's worn mostly to lampshade it, and when it appears in non-comics fiction. It's mostly "Don't you look ridiculous like that? Yeah, but it got me to talk to you" kin of vibe, if you know what I mean.
    Well, for one, I doubt that that's actually the case. It may be your perception of Superman, but the character is one that's been loved the world over for decades. And that was true even when, yes, he had the red trunks on. So, I'd kind of like to see the numbers on what public perception of Superman is in other countries before stating that they see him as a "joke."

    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    Well, that's too bad it is then. Because the "iconic" Superman is as unappealing to new readers as you can. Hence why Jon was created, but even him as become less than interesting in Superson, where Damian is constantly belittled to help a member of the Superman family outshine a Batfamily's, since it apparently can't do it without it (which is a shame, but hardly surprising seeing what the Superman line has been for most of the last four decades, with the thankful exception of New 52).
    Again, this is your perception. That doesn't make it true for all, or even most, people. Plus, you do know that, for the most part, the New 52 Superman comics were critically panned, right? In fact, most people didn't like or respond to the New 52 Superman...hence why DC killed him off.
    Last edited by Zeeguy91; 03-11-2018 at 12:51 PM.
    Favorite Mythologies: Green Lantern, Batman (pre-Flashpoint), Spider-Man, The Fantastic Four, the Justice League/JLA (pre-Flashpoint)

    DC Pulls - Action Comics; Bug! Adventures of Forager; Deathstroke; Doom Patrol; Hal Jordan & the GLC; Mister Miracle; Superman

    Marvel Pulls - Captain America; The Mighty Thor

    Non-Big Two Pulls - Saga; Archie

  3. #678
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Son of Krypton View Post
    It makes me wonder what nostalgic stunt they'll pull for his 90th anniversary.
    For the 85 the anniversary they'll bring back the mullet and the electro Supes costume and combine them together. For the 90th they'll bring back the Trunks again. Written probably by Jurgens
    When it comes to comics,one person's "fan-service" is another persons personal cannon. So by definition it's ALL fan service. Aren't we ALL fans?
    SUPERMAN is the greatest fictional character ever created.

  4. #679
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Next year they'll introduce whisps of white hair at his temples. Then for the 90th anniversary they'll reveal that this happened because he was being fed upon by an ancient parasite.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "Now why don't we step up here and everybody get stepped up, and let's get some stepped up personal space up in this place." - Phillip Jacobs

  5. #680
    Extraordinary Member Last Son of Krypton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel1979 View Post
    For the 85 the anniversary they'll bring back the mullet and the electro Supes costume and combine them together. For the 90th they'll bring back the Trunks again. Written probably by Jurgens
    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Next year they'll introduce whisps of white hair at his temples. Then for the 90th anniversary they'll reveal that this happened because he was being fed upon by an ancient parasite.
    Oh yeah, and WB animated will do another Death of Superman adaptation a little more faithful than the previous one. Just a little.

  6. #681
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    The fact is, they did change the costume and experimented with different variations the last few years, and it made not one iota of difference in Superman popularity. People that loved him before still love him, people that didn't still didn't, and those ambivalent before are still ambivalent now. That doesn't mean they shouldn't change things up from time to time and try something new, but if anyone seriously thought nixing the Trunks and putting him in armor was going to by itself usher in a new throng of fans and bring loads of people into Superman fandom, they were frankly delusional. Nor will bringing them back by itself will cause lapsed fans and readers to flood back in and suddenly Supes is selling like it's 1975 again.

    I also scratch my head at the idea that a blue and yellow skin tight uniform with a big red cape and a red and yellow crest with the 19th letter of the alphabet on the chest isn't on its surface completely silly , but slap a pair of red briefs over the blue pants and suddenly it's an abomination of silliness. Here's a news flash....All Superhero costumes are inherently silly. I mean, a grown adult dressing like a giant rodent with wings?A guy in black with a big skull on his chest calling himself " the Punisher" That's silly too. If silliness is a thing now, then all superheroes should just wear street clothes and call it a day.
    When it comes to comics,one person's "fan-service" is another persons personal cannon. So by definition it's ALL fan service. Aren't we ALL fans?
    SUPERMAN is the greatest fictional character ever created.

  7. #682
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Next year they'll introduce whisps of white hair at his temples. Then for the 90th anniversary they'll reveal that this happened because he was being fed upon by an ancient parasite.
    Now where have I heard that before...?
    When it comes to comics,one person's "fan-service" is another persons personal cannon. So by definition it's ALL fan service. Aren't we ALL fans?
    SUPERMAN is the greatest fictional character ever created.

  8. #683
    Extraordinary Member adrikito's Avatar
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    There are a lot of covers oh AC 1000:

    action comics 1000 superman supergirl.jpg

    I saw this a few minutes ago... I think that I will need AC 1000 for saw all the covers..
    Last edited by adrikito; 03-11-2018 at 01:15 PM.

  9. #684
    Mighty Member Korath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Would not having the trunks change France's opinion on him a great deal? I'm doubtful. What is the perception of superheroes in general over there?
    Peoples know of Batman and the MCU. Superman and Wonder Woman too. Beyond that, the general public is mostly ignorant. Comics are a very niche market compared to B.D. and Manga here. Obviously, because of the U.S.' cultural dominance, the big names are known and we got most of the DC and Marvel cartoons since the 60's (special mention for Superfriends and that old Spidey cartoon with all the memes, who are simply so atrocious in French that it becomes funny).

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    Again, this is your perception. That doesn't make it true for all, or even most, people. Plus, you do know that, for the most part, the New 52 Superman comics were critically panned, right? In fact, most people didn't like or respond to the New 52 Superman...hence why DC killed him off.
    Yeah, I know. That's too bad, because I'll keep reading Truth and Doomed and everything he appeared, now matter how chaotic it was, just for its tone, over things like All-Star Superman or post-Reborn Superman. And it is my firm belief that Truth and Doomed are vastly superior to All-Star or the Death of Superman in the messages they convey and the general undertone for the character. So I guess, I'll let peoples enjoy their stale and falling "iconic" Superman, have all the material which interest me for this character.
    Last edited by Korath; 03-11-2018 at 01:20 PM.

  10. #685
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    And it is my firm belief that Truth and Doomed are vastly superior to All-Star or the Death of Superman in the messages they convey and the general undertone for the character. So I guess, I'll let peoples enjoy their stale and falling "iconic" Superman, have all the material which interest me for this character.
    Alright, now I know you're just being Mr. Contrarian.
    Last edited by Miles To Go; 03-11-2018 at 01:46 PM.

  11. #686
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    Well, that's too bad it is then. Because the "iconic" Superman is as unappealing to new readers as you can. Hence why Jon was created, but even him as become less than interesting in Superson, where Damian is constantly belittled to help a member of the Superman family outshine a Batfamily's, since it apparently can't do it without it (which is a shame, but hardly surprising seeing what the Superman line has been for most of the last four decades, with the thankful exception of New 52).
    Quote Originally Posted by Zeeguy91 View Post
    Again, this is your perception. That doesn't make it true for all, or even most, people. Plus, you do know that, for the most part, the New 52 Superman comics were critically panned, right? In fact, most people didn't like or respond to the New 52 Superman...hence why DC killed him off.
    Costume aside, there really is no difference between the classic Superman and New 52 Superman. New 52 pulled stuff from the Golden and Silver age. If you like one, there is a chance you'll find something to like about another.

    And there was no reason to kill him. That was the dumbest thing they could have done, so DC being DC, of course they did it and made a bigger mess of things. All that was needed was changing the costume back and having him break up with Diana to get back with Lois or something.

    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    PYeah, I know. That's too bad, because I'll keep reading Truth and Doomed and everything he appeared, now matter how chaotic it was, just for its tone, over things like All-Star Superman or post-Reborn Superman. And it is my firm belief that Truth and Doomed are vastly superior to All-Star or the Death of Superman in the messages they convey and the general undertone for the character. So I guess, I'll let peoples enjoy their stale and falling "iconic" Superman, have all the material which interest me for this character.
    You are probably in the vast minority as far as that goes, even among other fans who like the New 52 version. New 52 Clark is cut from the same cloth as All Star, which isn't surprising because the writer who laid the foundation for the former is the same writer. I really don't understand what messages you could have seen conveyed in All Star that were unappealing that weren't also present in the New 52. If Clark was wearing his classic outfit in the New 52, there would be no discernible difference in how the characters are written. One is just older and more experienced than the other, I believe the Action Comics run was originally conceived as a prequel series to All Star.

    The iconic Superman isn't falling, because he's arguably not present right now. Post-Reborn Superman isn't really like All Star, especially when it concerns the content and craft in the stories.

  12. #687
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Just worth correcting, New 52 Superman wasn't panned for the most part critically. It would be far more genuine to describe it as mixed. Action was well-received critically for Morrison and Pak's runs, which made up the majority of the series. Superman on the other hand was not well-received critically for the most part. Perez's run was criticisized as lacking direction (later revealed not to be his fault), and Lobdell's run was pretty panned. Superman/Wonder Woman was well-received during Soule's run. Mixed on Tomasi's run. Batman/Superman was pretty well-received in general. Superman Unchained was also well-received. If anything the pendulum swings more to the positive, but still mixed because a major cog, the Superman title, just never got its bearings.

    The major downward spiral was the effects of the DCYou initiative. But the narrative the whole era was critically panned on a majority level is a false one and it is my duty to squash it whenever it arises. The major death knell for the New 52 era though was the fact that we now know the more veteran talent within DC did not like it from the get go. I'm not saying they sabotaged it during the run, hell veteran talent outside of Morrison barely worked on the character, but when they did I think they tried to work with it and be team players about it. But with the debacle of DCYou which led to Didio's edict of a "Rebirth", they then jumped to restore a more post-Crisis feel when the opportunity arose for some new pitches.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 03-11-2018 at 02:11 PM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "Now why don't we step up here and everybody get stepped up, and let's get some stepped up personal space up in this place." - Phillip Jacobs

  13. #688
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    Outside of morrison and pak on the main books, so many of the writers didn't understand that morrison's brash young up and coming superman wasn't a static characteristic but a foundation for the character to grow from.

  14. #689
    Extraordinary Member Last Son of Krypton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    And there was no reason to kill him. That was the dumbest thing they could have done, so DC being DC, of course they did it and made a bigger mess of things. All that was needed was changing the costume back and having him break up with Diana to get back with Lois or something.
    To bad they wanted a ready-to-go 10 years old Son of Superman/Superboy, hence they killed NuSuperman and swapped him with Superdad and family.

  15. #690
    Mighty Member Korath's Avatar
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    All-Star Superman is arrogant, paternalistic and generally unlikable. He either cold or not really caring about the little peoples, being a lot more absorbed into his cosmic adventures, and his "death". He is also clearly depicted as a god-like being from the get go. New 52 Action is out of the shadows to help all the little peoples who are used to be trampled upon. He is brash and rash, but his heart is in the good place and he doesn't get lost in how incredibly intelligent, powerful and wonderful he is, while All-Star Superman was full of self-pity, and casual arrogance. The two are nothing alike, I can't even begin to imagine how New 52 Superman could end as the character wearing the S and the underwear in All-Star.

    Death of Superman is mostly a set up for the far better (if confusing) Reign of the SUpermen and Return of Superman, and it sadly lost a lot of its impact once you know that Superman will return which, as someone who went into them long after they were out, knew about those trilogy of stories and the rough ideas of it. Doomed had that tragic (if obviously not meant to last) danger above Superman : is the Man of Steel strong enough to not be consumed by the deadliest thing in the Universe ? There is this awe-inspiring sight of a hero beset by perhaps the worst thing that could happen to one still striving to do good, finding ways to use the Virus to help and protect and not destroy. In All-Star, Superman dies because he becomes too Super, and then end becoming a living God, so far above Mankind and that he becomes as easy to relate than a Supernova. It may be pretty, powerful and impressive to look at, but it's not a character, or even someone. it's a thing, to be studied, respected for its powers, but not something to aspire to. In Doomed, Superman display something that can be found in every human and shows us how even the worst things can be overcame, no matter the suffering it may be take, no matter the delusions they can breed into oneself.

    Which is way I find New 52 vastly superior to the current incarnation and most of what I read in elseworlds (barring perhaps Kingdom Come, where he is faillible in a logical way and still tried to do good until he felt that the world had moved away from his way of doing things). One show me how to overcome the worst of ourselves, that no matter what the world throw at us (like in Truth) what matters is to still do good, no matter the hardships, no matter how thankless peoples can be at time. He shows the world that powers isn't here to be abused but that it beget responsibility and a need to sacrifice oneself for the less well-off, and not like some kind of god granting Justice and Truth, but as a Man, struggling to do it.

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