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  1. #721
    Extraordinary Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Superman's not human. This shouldn't ever be lost on the character. He adores humanity. He loves them with every ounce of his being and will go to bat for them 10 times out of 10. But he's not human. He walks among them but he's not one of them.

    Can you go overboard with that? Sure. But, there were only rare instances when I felt the New 52 went there. And mostly Lobdell was the offender though. Can you go overboard in the other direction? Hell yes. They went overboard with that for 20 some odd years before starting to wise up a little bit. Even Rebirth has done its due diligence in giving the fact he's not a human being proper focus. Despite my other issues with him having the perfect family life, they at least did that much instead of going hardcore post-Crisis.
    I actually think the family aspect helps with this.

    All fathers try (or should, at least) to be larger-than-life for their children. You want your kids to believe that you are always in control, always have the answers. Fathers don't get to be regular people with problems and doubts, they (and the mothers) have to be the not-quite-human bastion their kids rely on to help the world make sense. So Jon being in the picture means that Clark has to be the one with wisdom, he has to be the one who sees the big picture, and he has to have an answer. He can't go running to Pa Kent for advice every time Jon asks a tough question (and couldn't even if Pa was alive). So Jon sort of helps reinforce those traits in Clark. It just happens to correlate with some of the classic pre-Crisis personality traits you and I are such a big fan of.
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  2. #722
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Fair points. While I'll always prefer Superman to not have a family in a present day scenario (which, let's not beat around the bush, is as good as saying I never want him to have a family because time is static in comics), it will be interesting to see what the future holds with how these things are juggled in the life of Superman.

    Maybe it will even make me change my whole view one day. Its happened before with other things I used to prefer, so its certainly not out of the question.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 03-12-2018 at 04:44 PM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "Now why don't we step up here and everybody get stepped up, and let's get some stepped up personal space up in this place." - Phillip Jacobs

  3. #723
    Extraordinary Member Last Son of Krypton's Avatar
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    Fans were given their own pair of Superman’s red trunks as a gift when attending the SXSW convention this weekend, with the hashtag #TheTrunksAreBack prominently displayed on the rear.

    https://www.supermanhomepage.com/dc-...runks-at-sxsw/


  4. #724
    Extraordinary Member Last Son of Krypton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Fair points. While I'll always prefer Superman to not have a family in a present day scenario (which, let's not beat around the bush, is as good as saying I never want him to have a family because time is static in comics), it will be interesting to see what the future holds with how these things are juggled in the life of Superman.
    Now that he have a family, the only things left for him are growing a belly and become bald.

  5. #725
    Notorious M.O.S. Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Son of Krypton View Post


    Fans were given their own pair of Superman’s red trunks as a gift when attending the SXSW convention this weekend, with the hashtag #TheTrunksAreBack prominently displayed on the rear.

    https://www.supermanhomepage.com/dc-...runks-at-sxsw/

    Frankly, I like the basic idea of Superman's design and while I do find the DC jokes about it kinda funny, I'm interested in just seeing people accept his costume and view the issue as a thing of the past. DC has learned that there is no distinct correlation between an updated look and better market performance, so we get him as we've almost always known him. Hopefully in turn they also honor the preferences of those who liked other stuff and stop with the jokes.

  6. #726
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    The whole lot of it, and I hated it from start to finish. It was truly painful to go through it, and I did it only because I kept reading everywhere (here and elsewhere) that if you had to read one book to get Superman, it was this one. And it was a good thing I had already started reading the New 52 Superman, otherwise I wouldn't ever had opened even one book with this character in it (which is mostly what I'm doing right now, the only thing Superman related that I read is New Superman after all - and I hope that the writers will stop making Damian a stupid fool to prop Jon Kent, I hate to see a Bat-related character being made fun off by a Super, especially Damian).
    I think you need a re-read then, because you missed a lot of the scenes I mentioned. Or are outright ignoring them because they contradict the image of Superman you are trying to push. Paternalistic man-God who is more concerned with his science experiments than with caring about people is not accurate in the slightest. You cannot pretend the scenes I mentioned do not exist, because they do.

    And I neither know about nor care about what is happening with the Super Brats, but if a Bat-Character is taking a hit to prop up a Super character a bit, well....seems fair after the numerous times DC has allowed characters to get nerfed to prop up Batman. It happens to the Super Clan a lot. The Bat-clan can just suck it up and take it for once.

    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    Since they never even asked me about the character, or that he (and most characters, to be fair, baring perhaps Batman and Spiderman, who only pops up in "My bag as Spiderman on it" or "Look I got Batman's shoes" or even "my Lego Batman") haven't ever been the subject of conversation (keep in mind that 3 to 6 years old aren't exposed so much to cultural influences yet), it's not something which has ever happened. But if it had done or should happen in the future, I wouldn't recommend them All-Star Superman, nor any version with the ugly underwear on the outside. I would like kids to have great role models, not God-like beings in outdated outfits who aren't able to teach them anything of value beyond "some greater power will come and save you if you're good".
    Superhero comics are filled with superhuman characters saving people, many of whom have the same mythological trappings as Superman. So if you think that about his comics, you should probably think the same thing about the others. Batman comics teach you that a billionaire dressed in an outdated costume will save you if you're good, after all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    To each their own. I'm a fan of New 52 Superman too but I see him in a different light, one not so dissimilar from other incarnations.
    He really isn't that dissimilar at all. Everything about him besides his costume can be found in earlier incarnations, you just have to go further back than 1986. I can't really relate to disliking All-Star or disliking New 52 Superman but liking the other, because them being so similar in all but exact appearance is why I love them both. It's post-Crisis/Rebirth Superman I'm not too wild about, but even then it's more the general tone/style of the mythos and its stories that leave me cold; he isn't that different either, and is still very much Superman.

  7. #727
    Extraordinary Member Last Son of Krypton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    Frankly, I like the basic idea of Superman's design and while I do find the DC jokes about it kinda funny, I'm interested in just seeing people accept his costume and view the issue as a thing of the past. DC has learned that there is no distinct correlation between an updated look and better market performance, so we get him as we've almost always known him. Hopefully in turn they also honor the preferences of those who liked other stuff and stop with the jokes.
    I expect more (in-story) jokes coming as Bendis said we'll see people comment about Superman's trunks in his run.

  8. #728
    Fantastic Member jimmy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Fair points. While I'll always prefer Superman to not have a family in a present day scenario (which, let's not beat around the bush, is as good as saying I never want him to have a family because time is static in comics), it will be interesting to see what the future holds with how these things are juggled in the life of Superman.

    Maybe it will even make me change my whole view one day. Its happened before with other things I used to prefer, so its certainly not out of the question.
    My general thinking too, is to have a single Superman as it opens up the story more and I've always seen Jimmy, Lois, Perry as extended family. However, I'm really can't wait to see how the "New Direction" is going to handle this?


    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post

    He really isn't that dissimilar at all. Everything about him besides his costume can be found in earlier incarnations, you just have to go further back than 1986. I can't really relate to disliking All-Star or disliking New 52 Superman but liking the other, because them being so similar in all but exact appearance is why I love them both. It's post-Crisis/Rebirth Superman I'm not too wild about, but even then it's more the general tone/style of the mythos and its stories that leave me cold; he isn't that different either, and is still very much Superman.

    I really miss the Pre-crisis version .... I always wonder, if the internet had been as functional back then, as it is now, would that version and universe still be around?
    Last edited by jimmy; 03-12-2018 at 05:36 PM.

  9. #729
    Extraordinary Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmy View Post
    I really miss the Pre-crisis version .... I always wonder, if the internet had been as functional back then, as it is now, would that version and universe still be around?
    Certainly not.

    I think the amount of fan rage would've been far worse than what we got in the New52. In 2011, it was just another reboot and something long-term fans had learned to live with and suffer through. In 85, nothing like that had ever been done before and it meant huge, sweeping changes to a history that hadn't been manipulated in such a way before.

    DC would've caved and undone the Crisis before the 90's hit.
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  10. #730
    Fantastic Member jimmy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Certainly not.

    I think the amount of fan rage would've been far worse than what we got in the New52. In 2011, it was just another reboot and something long-term fans had learned to live with and suffer through. In 85, nothing like that had ever been done before and it meant huge, sweeping changes to a history that hadn't been manipulated in such a way before.

    DC would've caved and undone the Crisis before the 90's hit.
    Okay...I'll bite...in your opinion - what was wrong with that (Pre-Crisis) universe, that could not have been fix, without wiping it clean?

  11. #731
    Notorious M.O.S. Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    He really isn't that dissimilar at all. Everything about him besides his costume can be found in earlier incarnations, you just have to go further back than 1986.
    Not if we include his motorcycle, relationship with Diana, similar age to Jimmy instead of Batman, blog with Cat, etc. The costumes are symbolic of his uniqueness rather than a sole point of difference, I think.

    While I can't say we've had the best possible execution in bringing back pre-crisis elements, it's kinda melded into the same shorthand as bringing back post crisis. You see classic things like kissing Lois, trunks, or a suit and tie as Clark and it triggers whichever idea of a classic Superman the writer chooses to push, from 1938-2011. Though I have to say, the t shirt and jeans from Rags came very close to doing the same despite not being in line with the Superman Morrison chose to evoke.

  12. #732
    Extraordinary Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmy View Post
    Okay...I'll bite...in your opinion - what was wrong with that (Pre-Crisis) universe, that could not have been fix, without wiping it clean?
    Absolutely nothing.

    I read your post wrong; I thought you were asking if the post-Crisis universe would've stuck around, not the pre-Crisis universe. My bad!

    I don't believe in reboots. They don't fix things, they just make it worse. A retcon here or there? A sliding timescale? Maybe a soft reboot for the properties that are in dire trouble? Okay. A full on reboot though? That's never the right answer.

    I haven't seen a problem in comic books yet, after 25+ years reading them, that couldn't be fixed with six months of quality writing.
    Higher, Faster, Further....More.

    Truth, Justice, and a Better Tomorrow!

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  13. #733
    Extraordinary Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kuwagaton View Post
    Not if we include his motorcycle,
    Wasn't there a super cycle in pre-Crisis? I swear I vaguely recall one.....
    Higher, Faster, Further....More.

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  14. #734
    Notorious M.O.S. Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Closest I know is the supermobile.

  15. #735
    Fantastic Member jimmy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Wasn't there a super cycle in pre-Crisis? I swear I vaguely recall one.....
    The Supermobile made out of Supermanium or something like that Superman used it against Amazo as I remember...


    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-l1GEKei_KL...0/zxcvzxcv.jpg
    Last edited by jimmy; 03-12-2018 at 07:18 PM.

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