Superman's Red Trunks Return in Action #1000

[Ascended]

I'll never understand the argument that they're an 'outdated' aspect of his costume. Shuster designed them as part of the costume because he was into bodybuilding (and they're still something bodybuilders wear), but regardless of their origins they're far more associated with superheroes than anything else now. It's like saying capes and boots are outdated.

Capes get a pass, I believe, because they don't really have a history in America. It's basically a borrowed tradition so it was never "fashionable" here in the first place. A better question is why they're still accepted. I'll point out that most new characters don't actually wear capes. It's very rare these days. So its less that capes are accepted when trunks aren't, and more that capes aren't ridiculed like trunks are. And boots.....well no one says boots are outdated as I suspect many of us (at least on the American east coast) are wearing them right now.

Trunks are considered outdated because they literally are an outdated fashion that you no longer really see in American culture. Not even wrestlers really do the trunks thing much these days (at least as far as I know, I haven't followed that in a long time). Combined with the running joke that the trunks have been in popular culture since.....the 60's at least, and it's little wonder why people don't respond to them.

The dislike of such a quintessential part of the design stems from an insecurity about liking superheroes.

Now that is just silly. Perhaps people who don't like the trunks don't like them simply because they don't care for the style. I don't like my female heroes to look like they're wearing bikinis. Does that mean I hate beaches or scantily clad women?

[Kuwagaton]

In gyms I see tons of guys with weirder fashion choices than Superman. Well, maybe Superman's boots push it into being weird, no one would ever have a practical purpose for wearing those.

But more to the point, bodybuilding is actually quite a huge thing in the US. Bodybuilders get massive respect and are often local celebrities. A large number of women do find them attractive and guys usually give them props for being so massive. Olympia and other big shows pack crowds. And... those guy are wearing nothing but thongs.

[Sacred Knight]

I also think capes get less ridiculed because they serve an visual function still in books with characters that still use them. The aesthetic of flying, for instance, is visually pleasing with a cape billowing giving the illusion of movement. Even with leaping and running with characters like Batman. That's why those who classically have had capes (as Ascended pointed out, most new characters these days don't have them anyway), have never been under any threat of losing them.

[Kuwagaton]

It's also uniquely functional in the sense of transporting people and materials with a nearly indestructable wrap as well as carrying a secret compartment to keep things.

[Ascended]

In gyms I see tons of guys with weirder fashion choices than Superman. Well, maybe Superman's boots push it into being weird, no one would ever have a practical purpose for wearing those.

But more to the point, bodybuilding is actually quite a huge thing in the US. Bodybuilders get massive respect and are often local celebrities. A large number of women do find them attractive and guys usually give them props for being so massive. Olympia and other big shows pack crowds. And... those guy are wearing nothing but thongs.

True, but the entire point of those competitions is to show off the skin and muscle definition. Wearing anything more would defeat the purpose, and wearing anything less would just show off how bad steroids are for you.

If Superman were flying around naked, the trunks would serve a purpose. But Superman doesn't seem too concerned with everyone getting to see how ripped he is.

[Ascended]

It's also uniquely functional in the sense of transporting people and materials with a nearly indestructable wrap as well as carrying a secret compartment to keep things.

That is also true.

No one wants to be carried in Superman's trunks. Well....I suppose some people might.

[Pohzee]

If Superman's costume is as skintight as it often appears to be, then the trunks are for modesty.

I've worn shorts over spandex before.

[Kuwagaton]

True, but the entire point of those competitions is to show off the skin and muscle definition. Wearing anything more would defeat the purpose, and wearing anything less would just show off how bad steroids are for you.

If Superman were flying around naked, the trunks would serve a purpose. But Superman doesn't seem too concerned with everyone getting to see how ripped he is.

well, it's still really tight. If he rips his tights or things generally get too up close and personal, the trunks will obscure things whereas a layer under the tights will maybe prove a little more awkward if the tights are compromised and there aren't any trunks.

I'm not sure why his suit didn't rip in the golden age, actually. And I only guess it was tight so people would take notice?

[Ascended]

well, it's still really tight. If he rips his tights or things generally get too up close and personal, the trunks will obscure things whereas a layer under the tights will maybe prove a little more awkward if the tights are compromised and there aren't any trunks.

I'm not sure why his suit didn't rip in the golden age, actually. And I only guess it was tight so people would take notice?

As I recall, in the Golden Age he treated his suit with a chemical compound he invented so it was tear-resistant. Or maybe that was in the Silver Age.....after shoveling six tons of snow today I'm a little loopy so I dunno. And it was tight because it was modeled after circus strongmen, so I guess it is because he wanted to be seen.

[The Ray]

To find Clark from "All-Star Superman" a paternalistic jerk that sees himself as a god and doesn't care about anyone but himself, to think that this is the personality of Post-Crisis Superman, and to think that "Truth" is a better story than "All Star Superman"...

I always knew that New 52 fans could be a little out there, but damn...

[jimmy]

People haven't worn capes since the 1800s. Should capes be dropped too because they are no longer in fashion?

Exactly!!! People still wear blue jeans and they have been around since early 1870's.

How wide open are the eyes of people who think Superman's red trunks are underwear?[/QUOTE]

Yes, good question - how wide indeed?

If Superman's costume is as skintight as it often appears to be, then the trunks are for modesty.

I've worn shorts over spandex before.

Actually, Superman wears just - one pair of long two-tone pants, with the brief area shaded in red and legs in blue?

Capes get a pass, I believe, because they don't really have a history in America. It's basically a borrowed tradition so it was never "fashionable" here in the first place. A better question is why they're still accepted. I'll point out that most new characters don't actually wear capes. It's very rare these days. So its less that capes are accepted when trunks aren't, and more that capes aren't ridiculed like trunks are. And boots.....well no one says boots are outdated as I suspect many of us (at least on the American east coast) are wearing them right now.

Trunks are considered outdated because they literally are an outdated fashion that you no longer really see in American culture. Not even wrestlers really do the trunks thing much these days (at least as far as I know, I haven't followed that in a long time). Combined with the running joke that the trunks have been in popular culture since.....the 60's at least, and it's little wonder why people don't respond to them.



Now that is just silly. Perhaps people who don't like the trunks don't like them simply because they don't care for the style. I don't like my female heroes to look like they're wearing bikinis. Does that mean I hate beaches or scantily clad women?

To say that the; "cape" gets a "pass" no one says "boots" are outdated but "the belted trunk pants" are "non grata" is a plain and simple "double standard" hypocrisy, as the person just - cherry picks - the things they like and find appealing based on their own or, someone else's criteria with "pop culture" being very fleeting and fluctuating.

We all know, that if it weren't for the "belted trunk pants" which happens to be strategically located in the pelvic region of the body we would NOT even be discussing this topic.

brae==

To find Clark from "All-Star Superman" a paternalistic jerk that sees himself as a god and doesn't care about anyone but himself, to think that this is the personality of Post-Crisis Superman, and to think that "Truth" is a better story than "All Star Superman"...

I always knew that New 52 fans could be a little out there, but damn...

Man it is a New World!!

[Ascended]

To say that the; "cape" gets a "pass" no one says "boots" are outdated but "the belted trunk pants" are "non grata" is a plain and simple "double standard" hypocrisy, as the person just - cherry picks - the things they like and find appealing based on their own or, someone else's criteria with "pop culture" being very fleeting and fluctuating.

Is it hypocritical? Sure. I don't get it either, and have no mind for fashion. But it seems to me that fashion is built on hypocrisy itself, so that some clothing items or styles are accepted by the masses while others aren't shouldn't surprise anyone. Im also not the one who decided that the trunks would be a point of ridicule, someone else made that decision long before I was born. But the trunks do get a lot of flak from people, and have for decades. I'm trying to understand why that is.

Personally the trunks are not a deal-breaker or a deal-maker for me. Red trunks does not a Superman make. Now, I have come to really like the current costume, and for business/marketing reasons (which would be changed if new data came to me) I'd probably leave them gone. But they never bothered me. Though....he does look odd to me now, after seeing him without them for so long.

We all know, that if it weren't for the "belted trunk pants" which happens to be strategically located in the pelvic region of the body we would NOT even be discussing this topic.

So....if he wasn't wearing trunks, we wouldn't be discussing trunks? I doubt that. He hasn't been wearing them for years, but we still discussed them.

If you mean we wouldn't be discussing the costume if the red were placed differently, perhaps as designs on the sides of his legs or something instead of trunks? We'd still be discussing changes. We discuss any change to a costume. We discuss which Batman suit is better, and those have been nothing but gray and/or black for thirty years.

[jimmy]

Is it hypocritical? Sure. I don't get it either, and have no mind for fashion. But it seems to me that fashion is built on hypocrisy itself, so that some clothing items or styles are accepted by the masses while others aren't shouldn't surprise anyone. Im also not the one who decided that the trunks would be a point of ridicule, someone else made that decision long before I was born. But the trunks do get a lot of flak from people, and have for decades. I'm trying to understand why that is.

Personally the trunks are not a deal-breaker or a deal-maker for me. Red trunks does not a Superman make. Now, I have come to really like the current costume, and for business/marketing reasons (which would be changed if new data came to me) I'd probably leave them gone. But they never bothered me. Though....he does look odd to me now, after seeing him without them for so long.

I wish I understood too, as I just can't see the logic of some people's rational, however I am cognizant that I grew up in a different age, (40's/50's) then most and the funny thing is, I only heard about this whole "belted Trunks" controversy with the "New 52" was introduced seven years ago.

Different Strokes, oh yeah, I can definitely understand that people have different taste in; what appeals to them, what they are influenced by and as long as the critique is followed by "in my opinion" or, something along those lines well, that is more than fine. However, when sweeping statements are made, like they are some type general law or, concrete fact, now that's the problem.

The ridicule factor, which in some cases, the out pouring of flak has turned into absolute "vitriol" (recently, by a few here) that "the trunks" receive, to me, has always seemed extremely; silly, sophomoric and hateful, by some in comparison - Really, how does an "undergarment" equate to a "pair of pants that have belt loops"?

Sometimes, it is difficult to tell with these people, if they are being "ignorant" and they believe what they say/think or, are they trying to be "funny" just to go along with a 'hand me down' - Lie!!

However, in words of Joseph Goebbels (Hitler's Minister of Propaganda) paraphrasing - "Tell a lie long enough people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie". Which, equates to laboring under a false pretense and how debilitating along with being embarrassing is that, going through life and believing in a Lie, no matter what it is.

The complete classic costume -to me- is visual representation of Superman, as it completes the image...However, it is not the be all - end all, that comes from heart and soul of the person in the costume!

Don't worry, it will grow back on you again

So....if he wasn't wearing trunks, we wouldn't be discussing trunks? I doubt that. He hasn't been wearing them for years, but we still discussed them.

If you mean we wouldn't be discussing the costume if the red were placed differently, perhaps as designs on the sides of his legs or something instead of trunks? We'd still be discussing changes. We discuss any change to a costume. We discuss which Batman suit is better, and those have been nothing but gray and/or black for thirty years.

Oh it is the latter alright...given the region of the body, especially with such intensity - as you are dealing with "other factors" outside of pure; design, balance, placement, material aesthetics, but with people's beliefs and perceptions that lay outside the norm.

[Korath]

Capes harken back to a regal style, and are in fact associated with nobility and royalty in a lot of today's show (just look at Game of thrones, where a lot of characters wear capes, and almost always they are a part of the nobility). Underwears on the outside makes one look silly, it's the kind of thing you see at Mardi Gras or a carnival, it's not evocative of greatness and power like capes can be. And even then, new characters (both heroes or villain) don't have capes, except when their Creator want to link them to a kind of nobility.

To find Clark from "All-Star Superman" a paternalistic jerk that sees himself as a god and doesn't care about anyone but himself, to think that this is the personality of Post-Crisis Superman, and to think that "Truth" is a better story than "All Star Superman"...

I always knew that New 52 fans could be a little out there, but damn...

Well then, it's too bad that you peoples can be so guillible and blind to the fact that, guess what, not everyone is the same. Yes, for me All-Star Superman is an unsufferable jerk, and reading about him require me to accept the fact that it will be a real torture. I stress it again : reading All-Star Superman or any kind of Superman like him his mentally and physically painful. I hate this depiction of the character, even the moment when he save someone from suicide isn't anything else than a paternalistic boss telling his "inferior" employee that he knows and that therefore, the employee is wrong to try and act against his pain the only way he can. That's not how such a situation should be dealt with, plain and simple.

[Kuwagaton]

All Star might be my favorite superhero trade after Born Again and Fall of the Mutants, but I do think it's a bit overrated and can see Superman as a tad paternalistic. Especially in the leering, lumbering style of Frank Quitely.

The thing about capes seeming noble though... there's nothing inherent to them, we give capes that distinction. We can just as easily regard something else as being that cool. Trunks and the basic design elements of Superman in general were cool enough for Batman, Wolverine, Magneto, and half of everyone else to swipe.