Superman's Red Trunks Return in Action #1000

[SiegePerilous02]

Watch the video I linked to and you'll see what I'm talking about. I certainly don't want to see the bathing-suit bottoms return, but there are other elements that I feel should return (the stars among them) and some that should go (the sword in particular).

IDK, the bits about her being sexually alluring without being a sex object are still accomplished with the current costume. if she walked around in it in the 1940s, she'd be showing pretty much the same amount of skin and would get pretty much the same reactions. She just accomplishes that while looking more practical for superheroing.

He also kind of lost me by saying Rucka ignored her personality in the movies. Her personality in her own movie was in line with Rucka's, Perez's and Marston's. And as for her personality in BvS, it's hard to judge because most of her screen time is fighting Doomsday, where action and weapons are just good sense because you can't love your way out a of a Doomsday scenario. Diana seeks peace, but she isn't an idiot.

The sword and shield need to be downplayed, but she carried them around pre-Flashpoint so it's not like the classic costume protected her from bad writers who wanted to make her violent. We can keep the costume and just...not have the sword. She wore this costume and didn't carry around the sword throughout all of Rucka's Rebirth run.

We need to go through periodic updates for these costumes for these characters, or else they stagnate. The fans of old or the rare fans with total old school appreciation/sensibilities can not sustain this business on their own. And this particular instance seems to have been successful, so it wouldn't make any sense whatsoever to go back to her old costume when there doesn't seem to be an outcry for it the way there is for Superman's trunks.

[victorsage]

Glad to see the trunks back.

[Osiris-Rex]

Why ? Why, in the year of 2018, would superman being wearing trunks?

He likes the way they feel?

And if they are loose fitting it helps hide his junk. Do we really need to see Superman's package when he is out and about?

[Last Son of Krypton]

Jim Lee always thinks ahead.

https://www.supermanhomepage.com/jim...again-one-day/

[manofsteel1979]

Jim Lee always thinks ahead.

https://www.supermanhomepage.com/jim...again-one-day/

I'm sure they will. I just hope next time they go away it isn't replaced by a Jim Lee design. I don't dislike Lee as an artist, but his design work leaves a lot to be desired.

[JAK]

I'm sure they will. I just hope next time they go away it isn't replaced by a Jim Lee design. I don't dislike Lee as an artist, but his design work leaves a lot to be desired.

Agreed. And I have to wonder... it seems like DC unknowingly "Old/New Coke"ed his classic costume. Likely not on purpose, but the parallels are fascinating, nonetheless.

[jimmy]

/

I mind very much. There's a great deal of symbolism in that original uniform that's now missing thanks to DC's boneheaded decision to try and reflect the Snyderverse design. Here's a great video on what's been lost since the New 52 changes.

Atlas -Thank you - Very entertaining and for me, things I had forgotten in this video - I generally do not want any major updates to the heroes that I knew, as I like them just the way they were.

I know, that sounds simplistic and maybe - it is because I from that “period in time” and, maybe because they were meant to look that way but, simple works as the power of simplicity that classic costume brings in looks to the character, (well at least 9/10 times), is best look. The overall aesthetics and design layout, concept and placement there of; is essentially correct seldom do they need complete overhaul or, taking away a major feature(s).

The Wonder Woman, I know and remember (recognize the best) is the Red bustier, gold eagle top and star-spangled bottoms and red boots and there was absolutely NOTHING WRONG with that at all costume. I remember when DC went crazy in the very early 70’s and change her into a powerless secret agent who knew martial arts, like taking wrecking ball to a building, and totally change her look and feel – fast forward to 2011 and she is wearing pants – sigh!

This makes me think if Superman fans are actually fans of the character or the costume..

I think you can be fans of both, as you build up a recognition for a person they come to be known by their attire which, becomes part of their character .

I do enjoy ordering Godfathers at restaurants. That drink hasn't been popular since the 50's, I believe, and no one ever knows what I'm talking about. Makes me seem far more educated in my liquors than I am.

Hmm…like a Hi-Ball or Rob Roy.

Now *that* is a paper I'd like to read! I wouldn't have expected such a nerdy topic to be allowed for your dissertation?

Yeah, 78 pages typed on my Underwood Manual Typewriter - No PC’s or word processors back then. The synopsis - how command and respect need to work both ways in concert with the superior and subordinate in order to effective leader of any operations.

And I gotta fix a mistake from my last post before a history buff catches it. I meant to say "Ottoman, Safavid, and Indian" not Mughal. Last paper I wrote was about the Mughal. not this latest one.
I hear you. For me, it was always about drawing Superman. That's what I spent the first twenty-something years of my life wanting to do.

I'd guess that, back in the 40's, it was about making sure everyone knew Diana was properly "Westernized" despite her Greek heritage. Couldn't have the little kids thinking that another nation was as great as the U S of A after all (even if that nation was a fictional island of women no one could reach). Now its about showing Diana's culture off, because its no longer dangerous and strange, but exotic and exciting.

Back then it was more of polarized world with All-American slogans like; “Keep ‘em Flying Buy Bond” - One thing with those earlier Wonder Woman titles, is that she was always being tied up which, was really a psychological look of the character and her make up disguised as dominance and submission, negative and positive, -yin/yang- etc...In the 40's - it is amazing that the comics and WM Marston gotta away with this.

[Agent Z]

Atlas -Thank you - Very entertaining and for me, things I had forgotten in this video - I generally do not want any major updates to the heroes that I knew, as I like them just the way they were.

I know, that sounds simplistic and maybe - it is because I from that “period in time” and, maybe because they were meant to look that way but, simple works as the power of simplicity that classic costume brings in looks to the character, (well at least 9/10 times), is best look. The overall aesthetics and design layout, concept and placement there of; is essentially correct seldom do they need complete overhaul or, taking away a major feature(s).

The current WW outfit is closer to the original version than the flag swimsuit.

The Wonder Woman, I know and remember (recognize the best) is the Red bustier, gold eagle top and star-spangled bottoms and red boots and there was absolutely NOTHING WRONG with that at all costume. I remember when DC went crazy in the very early 70’s and change her into a powerless secret agent who knew martial arts, like taking wrecking ball to a building, and totally change her look and feel – fast forward to 2011 and she is wearing pants – sigh!

Well for people introduced to WW in this outfit, there’s nothing wrong with it either and it’s the WW they recognise.
And giving her a skirt, which is again closer to the original outfit, is nowhere near the idiocy in the 70s.

I think you can be fans of both, as you build up a recognition for a person they come to be known by their attire which, becomes part of their character that you are brain dead associates with even when it’s another character.

When you start claiming a character’s entire costume is their core, I think you’ve taken a wrong turn somewhere.

Back then it was more of polarized world with All-American slogans like; “Keep ‘em Flying Buy Bond” - One thing with those earlier Wonder Woman titles, is that she was always being tied up which, was really a psychological look of the character and her make up disguised as dominance and submission, negative and positive, -yin/yang- etc...In the 40's - it is amazing that the comics and WM Marston gotta away with this.

Not that amazing. This was back in the day where female characters were primarily damsels in distress and even female heroines couldn’t escape this.

[jimmy]

The current WW outfit is closer to the original version than the flag swimsuit.


Well for people introduced to WW in this outfit, there’s nothing wrong with it either and it’s the WW they recognise.
And giving her a skirt, which is again closer to the original outfit, is nowhere near the idiocy in the 70s.

That maybe, but the more modifications you make, the more distance you put between classic/iconic look!

When you start claiming a character’s entire costume is their core, I think you’ve taken a wrong turn somewhere.

Wrong turn...how so, when it is worn consistently?

Not that amazing. This was back in the day where female characters were primarily damsels in distress and even female heroines couldn’t escape this.

The psychological look of dominance / submission is from Marston's perspective, not mine. The amazing part was how it was woven into a comic book which can be accessed by all ages.

[SiegePerilous02]

Most of DC's attempts to screw around with Wonder Woman's costume over the years have been pretty awful. I'd rather have the classic costume if we can't have the current one. That doesn't mean they couldn't have eventually created an update that worked, as they evidently have now. And the new look she's wearing in the movies is also the first exposure a new generation has with her.

If they want to examine the sexual/psychological elements of the character that Marston had, they can still easily do it with this one. It's a shame that they don't and that they don't have any writers equipped to do it, but even so, she's gotten explicitly laid more in the Rebirth era than she did in post-Crisis with the bathing suit.

As for Superman, he similarly had a perfect update with the film version, whatever other faults the films may have had. The trunks are far and away the least important element of the costume. I don't mind them because I like all the classic looks, but an update like the DCEU still works and I don't miss them at all.

[Ascended]

One thing with those earlier Wonder Woman titles, is that she was always being tied up which, was really a psychological look of the character and her make up disguised as dominance and submission, negative and positive, -yin/yang- etc...In the 40's - it is amazing that the comics and WM Marston gotta away with this.

Well, it was also Marston's weird fetishes at work too. Dude had an interesting view on sexuality and it seems like just about all of that made its way onto the page in one way or another.

I think what's truly amazing is that it didn't spiral down into some sort of comic book erotica, like what you see out of Japan and Europe.

[jimmy]

Most of DC's attempts to screw around with Wonder Woman's costume over the years have been pretty awful. I'd rather have the classic costume if we can't have the current one. That doesn't mean they couldn't have eventually created an update that worked, as they evidently have now. And the new look she's wearing in the movies is also the first exposure a new generation has with her.

If they want to examine the sexual/psychological elements of the character that Marston had, they can still easily do it with this one. It's a shame that they don't and that they don't have any writers equipped to do it, but even so, she's gotten explicitly laid more in the Rebirth era than she did in post-Crisis with the bathing suit.

As for Superman, he similarly had a perfect update with the film version, whatever other faults the films may have had. The trunks are far and away the least important element of the costume. I don't mind them because I like all the classic looks, but an update like the DCEU still works and I don't miss them at all.

"DC After Dark" - a private look of your favorite heroes in the wakeful hours! Hire a couple of specialized writers to take over the dialog.

Preserving as much of the Iconic look is important (IMHO), and lets face it, is already associated with the character. People should appreciate the original concept and intention, no matter what that intention is. To quote Shakespeare and Twain - "the clothes make the man", which has validity!

Unfortunately - we live in "sexually-repressed society" of: guilt, shame, religious dogma, various social mores and misconceptions. These elements, are also, the same elements behind the disdainful attitudes towards "Superman's belted Trunks" and making excuses for dismissing them as relics of the past since the trunks are located in the reproductive area of the body.

With Superman's trunks, they don't need to be a separate piece of material for live action, as the red brief part can be incorporated into the blue leggings completely seem-less into one pair of pants!

[jimmy]

Well, it was also Marston's weird fetishes at work too. Dude had an interesting view on sexuality and it seems like just about all of that made its way onto the page in one way or another.

I think what's truly amazing is that it didn't spiral down into some sort of comic book erotica, like what you see out of Japan and Europe.

Wow...that is funny you should say something like that - as I was thinking it was the fuel for a lot of the Japanese anime!!

Marston writing always reminded me of something out of "Weird Tales" and "Al Capp's "Li'l Abner"

Very Freudian....I wouldn't be surprised if Marston was under going Psychoanalysis when he was writing some of this to exercise his demons!

[andersonh1]

When you start claiming a character’s entire costume is their core, I think you’ve taken a wrong turn somewhere.

If costumes weren't important to super heroes, they'd be wearing street clothes. Visuals matter as much as character traits. The costume is part and parcel of the whole character.

[SiegePerilous02]

If costumes weren't important to super heroes, they'd be wearing street clothes. Visuals matter as much as character traits. The costume is part and parcel of the whole character.

It is vitally important, but that doesn't mean they can't be tweaked. Especially if the major color schemes and elements are still in place. Superman is still instantly recognizable to everyone with his trunks-less movie costume because all the important elements are there.