Superman's Red Trunks Return in Action #1000

[Sacred Knight]

I still contend though the New 52 had by far the best idea to incorporate a little more red in via the sleeve and neck accents. That's a million times better than those stupid gauntlets. That should have been what carried over to the classic suit, if any modern element should have.

[Ascended]

For my money in this particular moment I just like that he's off to the beat of his own drum, doing his own thing. Nobody is rocking their classic looks for the most part and nobody is rocking the trunked look anymore it makes him look retro and sort of odd ball. Which I like.

And you know what? If DC spun it right, that might actually gain some traction. Call up Waid and Samee and see how much money and apologizing and groveling they'd require to do a Superman run.

But that would require DC lean into that kind of self-aware oddball, Doctor Who "bowties are cool" vibe and make it work for them, and I just don't see that happening under the current management.

But I mean if you look at someone like MegaMan or Sonic the Hedgegog they're bluer than Supes ever has been and for the most part nobody has found their looks overwhelmingly blue.

That's because the idea that you need a color break in the costume is a design fallacy. You don't actually need one, from an artistic standpoint. Clark has just had one for his whole history, and people have confused "requirement" with "just how it's always been."

I actually find it funny that the slightest change to Superman's visual, either costume or haircut or cape length or whatever, hits more resistance than the changes to his personality. You want to change the belt loops from a straight line to a slightly angled line, and fans are all like "Nuh-uh, that costume is a classic and perfect in every respect! It's been like this for seventy years! Don't you touch it!" but if you want to say that Clark only regards Krypton as "a curious memento of a life that could've been," fans are like "Yup, cool. I'll allow it!"

[RepHope]

And you know what? If DC spun it right, that might actually gain some traction. Call up Waid and Samee and see how much money and apologizing and groveling they'd require to do a Superman run.

But that would require DC lean into that kind of self-aware oddball, Doctor Who "bowties are cool" vibe and make it work for them, and I just don't see that happening under the current management.



That's because the idea that you need a color break in the costume is a design fallacy. You don't actually need one, from an artistic standpoint. Clark has just had one for his whole history, and people have confused "requirement" with "just how it's always been."

I actually find it funny that the slightest change to Superman's visual, either costume or haircut or cape length or whatever, hits more resistance than the changes to his personality. You want to change the belt loops from a straight line to a slightly angled line, and fans are all like "Nuh-uh, that costume is a classic and perfect in every respect! It's been like this for seventy years! Don't you touch it!" but if you want to say that Clark only regards Krypton as "a curious memento of a life that could've been," fans are like "Yup, cool. I'll allow it!"

Costume changes are immediately obvious but you have to actually read a comic book to know about characterization changes, so people complain less. Also Bryne was pre-Internet, I'm POSITIVE he'd have gotten a ton of crap online if the Internet existed back then.

[Last Son]

Costume changes are immediately obvious but you have to actually read a comic book to know about characterization changes, so people complain less. Also Bryne was pre-Internet, I'm POSITIVE he'd have gotten a ton of crap online if the Internet existed back then.

I thought Byrne's changes were pretty controversial with fans at the time.

[Patrick Gerard]

For my money in this particular moment I just like that he's off to the beat of his own drum, doing his own thing. Nobody is rocking their classic looks for the most part and nobody is rocking the trunked look anymore it makes him look retro and sort of odd ball. Which I like.

But I mean if you look at someone like MegaMan or Sonic the Hedgegog they're bluer than Supes ever has been and for the most part nobody has found their looks overwhelmingly blue.

Sonic has a naked belly. Mega Man has a two tone outfit with trunks.

Anyway, especially as Superman moves away from baby blue, I think yellow is the most important color in his costume.

[jimmy]

For my money in this particular moment I just like that he's off to the beat of his own drum, doing his own thing. Nobody is rocking their classic looks for the most part and nobody is rocking the trunked look anymore it makes him look retro and sort of odd ball. Which I like.

I’m always a fan of “It’s your thing do what you wanna’ do” - who knows, we all could be on the edge of a grass roots retro revolution.

But I mean if you look at someone like MegaMan or Sonic the Hedgegog they're bluer than Supes ever has been and for the most part nobody has found their looks overwhelmingly blue.

These characters are symmetrical and balanced.

And you know what? If DC spun it right, that might actually gain some traction. Call up Waid and Samee and see how much money and apologizing and groveling they'd require to do a Superman run.

I'd love retro run, set in the 1950's where kids were reading Comics and Weird Tales mags and when the term 78 or 45 meant records and not someone else'. (there is joke in there somewhere)

But that would require DC lean into that kind of self-aware oddball, Doctor Who "bowties are cool" vibe and make it work for them, and I just don't see that happening under the current management.

That would be great if only....

That's because the idea that you need a color break in the costume is a design fallacy. You don't actually need one, from an artistic standpoint. Clark has just had one for his whole history, and people have confused "requirement" with "just how it's always been.

I actually find it funny that the slightest change to Superman's visual, either costume or haircut or cape length or whatever, hits more resistance than the changes to his personality.

Noticeable by old fogey's like me

More than just a color break Superman's classic costume is both with its SIMPLE design, which is to the point and part of its charm, is both; Symmetrical and As-Symmetrical in balance. In a side by side comparison, the costume is 'Symmetrical" as weights are on equal sides and in equal heft of a composition, center balanced around the axis in the center which gives is formality and being simple in overall layout. Top to Bottom, the costume is As-Symmetrical as the dynamic focal points change from chest to toe. With theses elements in place, change is very noticeable.

I thought Byrne's changes were pretty controversial with fans at the time.

Correct - John Byrne's changes (under the direction of DC as I come to understand) were very controversial, and for the most part, IMO, the reboot was unnecessary...

What I think RepHope is saying; had the robust technology of cyberspace today, existed back then - both, DC & John B. would have really heard the feedback from the fans immediately, and to the 10 power!

[JAK]

I did! I like the texture they went with, it's vaguely DCEU-like, but set on the Reborn costume with Reborn colors. The belt is way too thin, but otherwise I like it.

Have you seen Aquaman and Mera? They did a fantastic job with Mera, I think. I wonder if they've gone in and replaced the old character model they used in the hero-side Aquaman mission where you avert the surface-Atlantean war. It's the mission chain around level 24, I think?

Yeah, I thought it was good, myself. Still waiting for them to finally release a damn regular top for once (so many heroes could use it) for my Superman.

Oh, by the way, did you give me access to your bases? That *was* you, right? Dude, that kryptonian base is amazing, I am crazy jealous of that!!

I did, indeed! 5vperman is my character name. And thank you on the Fortress base - not sure if you saw before or after I did the "full lineup" of costumes, but if you have't seen them all lined up, have another look. (main/2nd floor is PC-Reborn timeline, 3rd floor is alternate future costumes, and bottom floor is villains).

Feel free to take as many ideas from it as you want, I don't mind! And if you need color schemes or costume part recipe lists for any of those, just let me know!

And you know what? If DC spun it right, that might actually gain some traction. Call up Waid and Samee and see how much money and apologizing and groveling they'd require to do a Superman run.

But that would require DC lean into that kind of self-aware oddball, Doctor Who "bowties are cool" vibe and make it work for them, and I just don't see that happening under the current management.

This is perfect - that's kinda what I was thinking of, but I just couldn't voice it right.

That's because the idea that you need a color break in the costume is a design fallacy. You don't actually need one, from an artistic standpoint. Clark has just had one for his whole history, and people have confused "requirement" with "just how it's always been."

I actually find it funny that the slightest change to Superman's visual, either costume or haircut or cape length or whatever, hits more resistance than the changes to his personality. You want to change the belt loops from a straight line to a slightly angled line, and fans are all like "Nuh-uh, that costume is a classic and perfect in every respect! It's been like this for seventy years! Don't you touch it!" but if you want to say that Clark only regards Krypton as "a curious memento of a life that could've been," fans are like "Yup, cool. I'll allow it!"

I'd say that Superman falls into a lot of resistance because he has a much higher societal status than pretty much any other superhero. I know people who just hated the "curious momento" angle with a burning passion. I think I'd have had more resistance to it than I do if I'd been reading at the time (and older). By the time I was reading the books steadily, that was just a small piece of his backstory, which he'd progressed quite a bit from by 1991/92.

[Lvenger]

Call up Waid and Samee and see how much money and apologizing and groveling they'd require to do a Superman run.

I could get on board with Samnee as a Superman artist but Waid is a shallow imitation of his former writing days. His Champions run was heavily panned for being too cringy and politically biased, his Avengers run is boring and generic and his Captain America run turned into a 'Trump iz evil' analogy after the first few stories of non political stories. It doesn't help that he's a bitter white knight who either antagonises or blocks fans online just because they disagree with his views or criticise his writing. Waid has long since lost the right to write Superman IMO as he's no longer suitable for the character.

[Jim Kelly]

The belt loops are a practical feature that you almost never see on any super-hero who wears a belt (somehow their belt just stays in place). This amuses me and that’s why I was sad to see them go. It’s not a big deal—but those little details, like the all yellow S on the cape or the spit curl that forms an S in his hair, are dear to me and other fans. We shouldn’t have to feel ashamed for liking these cute things.

The writers get a break on how they characterize Clark, because character isn’t a concrete thing. So one writer might stress social activism, while another concentrates on Superman’s interest in interplanetary zoology. It all fits.

The costume can change, too—but we should see the other versions hanging in his closet.

Changing hard and fast details of the origin is more quarrelsome. But even there I’m willing to believe Clark might have false memories or the Krypton AI might be corrupted by Brainiac.

If you squint, everything about Superman can fit in one comprehensive story.

[Soubhagya]

Yeah, I thought it was good, myself. Still waiting for them to finally release a damn regular top for once (so many heroes could use it) for my Superman.

I did, indeed! 5vperman is my character name. And thank you on the Fortress base - not sure if you saw before or after I did the "full lineup" of costumes, but if you have't seen them all lined up, have another look. (main/2nd floor is PC-Reborn timeline, 3rd floor is alternate future costumes, and bottom floor is villains).

Feel free to take as many ideas from it as you want, I don't mind! And if you need color schemes or costume part recipe lists for any of those, just let me know!

What are you talking about? Is it some game?

This is perfect - that's kinda what I was thinking of, but I just couldn't voice it right.

This is what i think too. I heard Ascended about the alien looking costume. I agree about texture. And alien looking costume looks cool. But somehow the simpler costume appeals to my heart.

I will be fine if they change it. I may like others, but the simple costume is what i love. Of course, its a subjective opinion. Making the trunks part of his costume is not really difficult. Simply make it look like Superman does not think it is odd. That it is cool. I don't know about Dr. Who but i took this was what he meant. I would suggest to make it the Kryptonian costume. His heritage. I don't see why it can't be worn by Jor-El and the Kryptonians. They are aliens. Odd costumes are the thing with aliens as seen in pop culture. Do this and no one will make fun of that without risking sounding a xenophobe or something. Why shall Superman not be proud of where he is coming from? DC has ways if they want it permanently.

[stephens2177]

Having the middle of the belt be some version of the S shield always bothered me,I want the original belt used on the trunk OR no trunk suits

[Ascended]

I'd love retro run, set in the 1950's where kids were reading Comics and Weird Tales mags and when the term 78 or 45 meant records and not someone else'. (there is joke in there somewhere)

I've long wanted to write a Superman story that takes place in the 40's (and have an idea for a "century of Superman" story that is almost certainly beyond my ability to craft)......though in this case I was talking about a retro-style book set in the modern day, like what Waid and Samnee have been doing with Daredevil, Black Widow, and now Captain America.

I could get on board with Samnee as a Superman artist but Waid is a shallow imitation of his former writing days. His Champions run was heavily panned for being too cringy and politically biased, his Avengers run is boring and generic and his Captain America run turned into a 'Trump iz evil' analogy after the first few stories of non political stories. It doesn't help that he's a bitter white knight who either antagonises or blocks fans online just because they disagree with his views or criticise his writing. Waid has long since lost the right to write Superman IMO as he's no longer suitable for the character.

Well, if Waid can write a run like the first issues of Captain America I'd happily take him back. His personal problems aren't my business, and I haven't seen anything that steps over a line in regards to political commentary, though I think I must've missed an issue or two after he got frozen. And I don't have an problem with political commentary in my comics anyway, so long as it's handled deftly. Whether Waid's done that or not, it seems I'd have to find the issues I missed to know.

What are you talking about? Is it some game?

It is! DC Universe Oneline. It's a MMORPG set in a version of the DC Universe where future Brainiac technology has been set loose on the world and tons of random people (the players) have gotten powers from this technology.

What Jak and I are talking about are character bases; each character gets a base that they can decorate with various items found throughout the game. These items run from generic and boring household items (like a fridge or couch) to DC inspired items like Rip Hunter's Time Sphere, or items from the Flash Museum. Jak gave my character permission to enter his bases, and they're very well done. I'll have to give him permission to enter mine next time I log into the game!

BTW Jak, they're not nearly as well done as your's.

As far as Superman goes in that game, the art and character models were originally done by Jim Lee, with everyone in their classic costumes. But that was back in 2011 and the graphics need some polishing every now and then. So they've started updating character models here and there, and tweaking the costumes as they do. They put Clark in the Reborn suit when they updated his face, hair, and everything else. Ironically, it was about a month after they did that that DC announced the return of the classic suit.

The game is free to play, so if you're curious you can download it and give it a try for nothing. You won't have access to everything, just the original, vanilla version of the game, but that'd be enough for you to know if you like it or not.

[RepHope]

I’m always a fan of “It’s your thing do what you wanna’ do” - who knows, we all could be on the edge of a grass roots retro revolution.



These characters are symmetrical and balanced.



I'd love retro run, set in the 1950's where kids were reading Comics and Weird Tales mags and when the term 78 or 45 meant records and not someone else'. (there is joke in there somewhere)



That would be great if only....



Noticeable by old fogey's like me

More than just a color break Superman's classic costume is both with its SIMPLE design, which is to the point and part of its charm, is both; Symmetrical and As-Symmetrical in balance. In a side by side comparison, the costume is 'Symmetrical" as weights are on equal sides and in equal heft of a composition, center balanced around the axis in the center which gives is formality and being simple in overall layout. Top to Bottom, the costume is As-Symmetrical as the dynamic focal points change from chest to toe. With theses elements in place, change is very noticeable.




Correct - John Byrne's changes (under the direction of DC as I come to understand) were very controversial, and for the most part, IMO, the reboot was unnecessary...

What I think RepHope is saying; had the robust technology of cyberspace today, existed back then - both, DC & John B. would have really heard the feedback from the fans immediately, and to the 10 power!

Yep that’s what I meant.

[stephens2177]

[JAK]

What are you talking about? Is it some game?

Ascended explained it pretty well, so I'll just add this: it's free to play on both the PC and the PS4 (and X-Box, but that server isn't connected to the other two - PC and PS4 share the world together). My main character is 5vperman (the closest it'd let me have to Superman) and I have four bases and 16 "armories" which let you pick clothes and ability sets. I use my armories for 15 different Superman costumes and one that looks like Dracula from the NES Castlevania games (one of my bases is an homage to the series). So if you ever get on there, send a message and I'll add you to my friends list and give you access to my bases.

This is what i think too. I heard Ascended about the alien looking costume. I agree about texture. And alien looking costume looks cool. But somehow the simpler costume appeals to my heart.

I will be fine if they change it. I may like others, but the simple costume is what i love. Of course, its a subjective opinion. Making the trunks part of his costume is not really difficult. Simply make it look like Superman does not think it is odd. That it is cool. I don't know about Dr. Who but i took this was what he meant. I would suggest to make it the Kryptonian costume. His heritage. I don't see why it can't be worn by Jor-El and the Kryptonians. They are aliens. Odd costumes are the thing with aliens as seen in pop culture. Do this and no one will make fun of that without risking sounding a xenophobe or something. Why shall Superman not be proud of where he is coming from? DC has ways if they want it permanently.

I like the alien looks.. but I like the simple more, as well. The somewhat "self-made Superman" has a cool ruggedness to it that fits Superman's personality for me. That said, the textures don't necessarily have to be alien; those in the game look fairly Earth-bound (kind of a polymer waffle-pattern-ish thing?) For Doctor Who, you're right that it's a "he's quirky and geeky and being into it is part of his personality" kinda thing. Doctor Who is on Amazon Prime, and I'd highly recommend it - it generally hits some of the same beats as some Superman stories, though very much in it's own way.

I've long wanted to write a Superman story that takes place in the 40's (and have an idea for a "century of Superman" story that is almost certainly beyond my ability to craft)......though in this case I was talking about a retro-style book set in the modern day, like what Waid and Samnee have been doing with Daredevil, Black Widow, and now Captain America.

Some of this reminds me of the movie series idea I had... where it starts in the 30's and each movie captures an "era" for Superman and leads us all the way up into modern day - explaining the changes in-universe and everything.

It is! DC Universe Online. It's a MMORPG set in a version of the DC Universe where future Brainiac technology has been set loose on the world and tons of random people (the players) have gotten powers from this technology.

What Jak and I are talking about are character bases; each character gets a base that they can decorate with various items found throughout the game. These items run from generic and boring household items (like a fridge or couch) to DC inspired items like Rip Hunter's Time Sphere, or items from the Flash Museum. Jak gave my character permission to enter his bases, and they're very well done. I'll have to give him permission to enter mine next time I log into the game!

BTW Jak, they're not nearly as well done as your's.

That's very kind - though since I've been on since beta, I've had quite a bit of time to tinker with them.

I love seeing people's bases and ideas, though - so that'd be great!

As far as Superman goes in that game, the art and character models were originally done by Jim Lee, with everyone in their classic costumes. But that was back in 2011 and the graphics need some polishing every now and then. So they've started updating character models here and there, and tweaking the costumes as they do. They put Clark in the Reborn suit when they updated his face, hair, and everything else. Ironically, it was about a month after they did that that DC announced the return of the classic suit.

Yeah, that was pretty funny - they staunchly stayed all-classic until just before DC announced they were going back. The only place the "original" Superman is still seen is in Legends PVP and the Superman Statue in Centennial Park. Not sure what they'll do now, lol

If you notice (in things like the Earth-3 duo), now that Superman's been redone... him standing next to the rest of the League makes them look very "last-gen" graphic-wise. The new Superman model is a LOT more expressive looking.