Rebirth vs New 52: The Numbers

[Trey Strain]

After what you see on that chart occurred, DC went to twice-monthly publishing of its strongest titles, and meanwhile Marvel alienated many of its readers by aggressively replacing its classic characters with minority members. So now DC is ahead of Marvel.

I think things might get even worse for Marvel, because the controversy over The Last Jedi is taking much of the shine off Star Wars.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Here are the facts. "Debacle," my hind foot.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-r7e-0fPpn...5_withnews.png

You do realize your own graph has DC heading into a decline while Marvel skyrockets, right?

I think this link is more helpful: https://www.bleedingcool.com/2014/01...-the-top-spot/

[El_Gato]

You do realize your own graph has DC heading into a decline while Marvel skyrockets, right?

I think this link is more helpful: https://www.bleedingcool.com/2014/01...-the-top-spot/

Going by Trey's chart, DC started to decline around the 2 and half year mark of the New 52 and Marvel skyrocketed when it acquired and started publishing Star Wars.

[Pohzee]

The better sales are coming from twice-monthly publishing, not from Rebirth.

One could also argue that the higher dropoffs are also a result of the double ship. Rebirth and double ship sales are inseperable.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Going by Trey's chart, DC started to decline around the 2 and half year mark of the New 52 and Marvel skyrocketed when it acquired and started publishing Star Wars.

The marketshare numbers show DC going into decline as soon as early 2013 and Marvel had reclaimed marketshare dominance by 2012.

[Korath]

I'm not really sure that either side can definitively prove which of New 52 or Rebirth was more successful. For once, one last five years and toward its waning period (the last yeard and a half, I would say) was purposely prepared to be offed, while the later is still ongoing. Plus, digitalization (and pirating, lets be honest) have probably progressed even more than we suspect in the years since 2011, so those numbers may only reflect the slow death of the Paper Age of comics and nothing more, really. Still, I think it poeves that there could be market for a separate New 52 Universe out there.

[Sirzechs]

print media is dying there no going around that, its time DC and Marvel start accounting for the digital numbers so we can know how well books are doing but as is numbers wont get any better, serious this numbers are from older readers, you think the netflix generation will want to go into a store when they can just buy it on their phones and read it same time.

[Trey Strain]

The marketshare numbers show DC going into decline as soon as early 2013 and Marvel had reclaimed marketshare dominance by 2012.

In 2015 DC was still far above where it had been when it launched the New 52 in 2011. The company had also earned many millions in additional revenue during the interim, so how was the New 52 a debacle?

Until very recently DC had not held the lead since 2001, which was a brief anomaly following Marvel's bankruptcy. Except for the bankruptcy period, Marvel had led DC since the late 1960s. This chart lays it out.

http://zak-site.com/Great-American-N...misc/sales.gif

[Trey Strain]

print media is dying there no going around that, its time DC and Marvel start accounting for the digital numbers so we can know how well books are doing but as is numbers wont get any better, serious this numbers are from older readers, you think the netflix generation will want to go into a store when they can just buy it on their phones and read it same time.

In principle I agree with you. And selling comics through comics shops is a limited and archaic distribution system. But as long as people will run out and buy every #1 or alternate cover you can print, it's hard to argue against doing it that way.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

In 2015 DC was still far above where it had been when it launched the New 52 in 2011. The company had also earned many millions in additional revenue during the interim, so how was the New 52 a debacle?

Until very recently DC had not held the lead since 2001, which was a brief anomaly following Marvel's bankruptcy. Except for the bankruptcy period, Marvel had led DC since the late 1960s. This chart lays it out.

http://zak-site.com/Great-American-N...misc/sales.gif

This is an article about DC's marketshare and about how it had lost more ground to Marvel than ever before in 2015: https://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/11...f-the-top-ten/

Also, according to this report of May 2015 sales, you have to go all the way down to the 24th slot to get to a DC book that wasn't Convergence. Of the top 50, DC only accounted for 18 of those titles. The rest was Marvel. We can literally just go back to 2010 to see that DC had much higher sales that year than in 2015.

The highest selling DC title in May 2015, Convergence, only sold 103k units. Meanwhile, in March 2010, Blackest Night, DC's (and the market's) highest selling book moved 135k units. Those 2010 numbers also look pretty much the same as DC's numbers throughout the New 52.

So, yes, the New 52 was a debacle. How exactly could it be a success if it didn't lead to a prolonged and maintainable sales increase?

[Trey Strain]

This is an article about DC's marketshare and about how it had lost more ground to Marvel than ever before in 2015: https://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/11...f-the-top-ten/

Also, according to this report of May 2015 sales, you have to go all the way down to the 24th slot to get to a DC book that wasn't Convergence. Of the top 50, DC only accounted for 18 of those titles. The rest was Marvel We can literally just go back to 2010 to see that DC had much higher sales that year than in 2015.

So, yes, the New 52 was a debacle.

Let me try again, by listing the numbers from that chart.

Before launching the New 52 in 2011, DC Comics took in about $225M.

In 2012, 2013, 2015 and 2015 they took in more than $250M each year.

This comes to more than $100M in additional revenues over four years.

I would love to suffer many, many debacles like that. I bet you would too.

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Let me try again, by listing the numbers from that chart.

Before launching the New 52 in 2011, DC Comics took in about $225M.

In 2012, 2013, 2015 and 2015 they took in more than $250M each year.

This comes to more than $100M in additional revenues over four years.

I would love to suffer many, many debacles like that. I bet you would too.

And do you have any actual data to back up that chart you pointed earlier? Any sources?

It doesn't really track when we've seen that DC's sales from before the New 52 were the same as or even better than after it.

[Trey Strain]

And do you have any actual data to back up that chart you pointed earlier? Any sources?

It doesn't really track when we've seen that DC's sales from before the New 52 were the same as or even better than after it.

This man compiled the data from Comichron. If you think the chart is inaccurate, then you can visit Comichron, copy the numbers and do the math yourself.

http://comicandscreen.blogspot.com/2...e-rebirth.html

[Chubistian]

Yeah, we will never know the final count of sales for these books because we don't know sales for digital issues and trades.

print media is dying there no going around that, its time DC and Marvel start accounting for the digital numbers so we can know how well books are doing but as is numbers wont get any better, serious this numbers are from older readers, you think the netflix generation will want to go into a store when they can just buy it on their phones and read it same time.

It’s not dying though. That something is less popular than before thanks to other options popping out doesn’t mean it will cease to exist. For years people have speculated about the decline of printed book and they’re still out there, just like comics are. Some people accommodate to digital, other would rather go to a store to buy it, there’s also those who prefer to buy them through Amazon or others online stores. But I agree that it would be cool to have more info about the digital comic books market, though I don’t think Marvel nor DC actually care that readers don’t know how much they sell in other plataforms. People in forums like to debate about comic book sells, but I don’t see what interest any of the big two could have in having fans doing that

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

This man compiled the data from Comichron. If you think the chart is inaccurate, then you can visit Comichron, copy the numbers and do the math yourself.

http://comicandscreen.blogspot.com/2...e-rebirth.html

The sales numbers I quote are from Comichron too. So, obviously, one needs to dig a little deeper than just the overall revenue to make a conclusive judgment about whether the N52 was a success.