Who should be the next gay character?

[Crimz]

This is a good question. For me it is comparable to how Jane Thor got switch for real Thor. I never read Thor. In fact if he wasn't in the Avengers I would probably never even look in his direction so when the switch happened I wasn't really phased.

However, I can understand why "core fans" of the character where upset . I also could also see if the character was being mistreated for the other why tensions would rise even more so. But at the end of the day I was not a fan of Thor so I could only empathize with both sides point of view, instead of sympathize.

Like I get it when fans of the character are against it, I can respect and empathize with that. But I can never understand when someone who isn't a fan, and never will be one whether the character is changed or not, is so vehemently against it. It's kind of similar to the Iceman situation. Ignoring how Bendis botched things, so many people where upset over the change when all these years most never cared about Iceman. He was basically wallpaper. I could understand why fans of him were upset, but the amount who were upset had never shown interest at all in the character beforehand. Some try to use the upcoming cancellation of his solo as proof that his reveal was a bad idea, but the hard truth is that an Iceman solo would have failed even if he was still straight.

[Drops Of Venus]

Don’t really have time right now to entertain this agressive post. So

1) No where in my post did I single out the LGBT community.
2)People talk a big game but when the time comes to put out actual dollars there is a mile long of excuess. You have presented quiet a few just now.
3) Whats naive is the continuation of entertaining the idea of major characters like Cap, Iron Man, SpiderMan and so on will get sexual orientation swap because people keep talking about. It happen to Iceman beacuse he was a C- X-Men that marvel kept trying to make and A X-Men with a writer who let messange boards dictate his stories because he lacked ideas and had a full plate off work. ( not saying Iceman being gay is a bad thing but it is what it is with how he got there)
4) What is also very naive is thinking that characters who aren’t going to get support or sell on their own should suddenly change their sexual orientation to please an unfortuantly very small community.

So yes if people don’t put money where there mouth is why should Marvel risk characters who are barley profitable, even the major ones, as if for a overall community who are quick to say “thats not good enough” . I personally don’t like loosing or wasting money, I can not think of a single reason why a company Marvels size would either. Naivety of entertaining it as some moral responsibility is even worse than the community banning together around existing characters who could make it. Especially, right now while super heroes are “in style”.


2 cents thrown

1. Okay then. I just assumed you were talking about the LGBTQ community when you said ''community'', but I guess I was wrong.

2. I wasn't giving any excuses. I was just stating the facts. Vocal support doesn't translate into big audience sales. Is that a lie? I don't think so. Even if everyone who shows support online bought those books, odds are they'd still be a minority compared to the general audience Marvel expects to buy their books. Let's say 5k people retweeted something regarding an LGBTQ character. That looks like a lot for Twitter, right? But is 5k people enough to keep a Marvel ongoing book going in the Direct Market? No. Marvel books depend on a lot more than just online vocal support, and unless Marvel figure out a way to market them in unconventional ways, they are still going to fail, because the direct market established a standard that some books will just never live up to.

3. Well, that was OP's point, not mine. Like I said, I'm not even crazy about these poll options.

That's the thing...they are not being singled out. This thread is specifically about LGBT characters so that is the "group" we are discussing. By enlarge most of the LGBT characters on this forum seem to be thought of as lesser or not good enough. As fans we are very quick to claim give me X or Y while at the same time complain about how left out we are. While at the same time having 3-6 characters at any given moment in titles being completely ignored and not given a chance.

Prime example Lighting. That character has STAR written all over him.
1) He's good looking
2) He has a unique power-set due to becoming lighting.
3) He's carming
4) He has a diverse background
5) He has a decent backstory
6) He can be used solo, on a team, and in most environments no problem(under water being the exception)
7) All of the above equal massive diverse story potential.

And the guy is currently back in action and one of the larges comic forums on the net barely can make a peep about him. Instead insisting on Americans poster child become gay when it's never going to happen. I mean really come on. We should be rolling over backwards talking about Lighting . Sending emails to Marvel about him. Trying to keep him out of limbo as best we can. So even if we does get thrown back in the box this go around someone will quickly pick him back out until he is the star he should be. Or at the very least to confirm that we did our part to keep him around.

Instead we are pretty much going " not good enough" and giving Marvel every right to agree. And back he will soon go. We have the characters. Hell we have plenty of unused very good characters LGBT or not just waiting for their chance. We just need to give the company a reason to bother. Because if we won't, why should they?

You see, this right here is why I think you're not paying attention to fandom. You keep bringing up this narrative that existing LGBTQ characters are not being supported enough AND IT'S JUST NOT TRUE. Of course it might look like that if you use Living Freaking Lightning, a z-list character, as the standard for comparison. But there are SEVERAL other more prominent and popular LGBTQ characters who ARE being supported. Again, I tell you: try participating in an actual LGBTQ-friendly fandom and YOU WILL SEE for yourself how people get excited and supportive of LGBTQ characters. You're tripping if you think there's no one tweeting, e-mailing and/or messaging Marvel about Northstar, Iceman, Wiccan, Hulkling, America Chavez, Angela, Sera, Hercules, Valkyrie, Rictor, Shatterstar, Mystique, Psylocke, Karolina Dean, Julie Power, Xavin, Moondragon, Phyla-Vell, Karma, Daken, etc. Just because you're not seeing it, it doesn't mean it's not happening.

And no, in a lot of those cases, Marvel is not even listening to the fans. How long have we been begging for the Xavin plot to be resolved in Runaways? How angry were people when Bendis fucked over Serangela, and no one has bothered to fix it ever since? How many times Wiccan and Hulkling are brought up as someone's favorite gay couple, and yet they keep being shoved in limbo? How many people are totally on board with Deadpool having a male love interest, yet that never happens? How furious were people at the straightwashing of Hercules and the lack of anything to make up for it? How often you see people praying Moondragon and Phyla-Vell will ever be relevant to the GOTG franchise again? How many people thought America Chavez deserved a relaunch because her first solo didn't do her justice? How many people wished that Northstar was kept in the spotlight after his wedding? I could go on and on here.... So I'm sorry, but trying to shift the blame to the fans here, implying they're not being supportive enough and that they mistreat what they have is just utter bullshit to me, 'cause I've been in this fandom long enough and I've seen the behavior of enough fans to know it's not about us not being loud enough, it's simply about our voices not always being heard, no matter how hard we try. And maybe that's why people resort to things like shipping Captain America with Bucky. When Marvel refuses to let a queer person even be acknowledged in their movies, I don't blame anyone for creating their own headcanon.

[maxhilary]

1. Okay then. I just assumed you were talking about the LGBTQ community when you said ''community'', but I guess I was wrong.

2. I wasn't giving any excuses. I was just stating the facts. Vocal support doesn't translate into big audience sales. Is that a lie? I don't think so. Even if everyone who shows support online bought those books, odds are they'd still be a minority compared to the general audience Marvel expects to buy their books. Let's say 5k people retweeted something regarding an LGBTQ character. That looks like a lot for Twitter, right? But is 5k people enough to keep a Marvel ongoing book going in the Direct Market? No. Marvel books depend on a lot more than just online vocal support, and unless Marvel figure out a way to market them in unconventional ways, they are still going to fail, because the direct market established a standard that some books will just never live up to.

3. Well, that was OP's point, not mine. Like I said, I'm not even crazy about these poll options.



You see, this right here is why I think you're not paying attention to fandom. You keep bringing up this narrative that existing LGBTQ characters are not being supported enough AND IT'S JUST NOT TRUE. Of course it might look like that if you use Living Freaking Lightning, a z-list character, as the standard for comparison. But there are SEVERAL other more prominent and popular LGBTQ characters who ARE being supported. Again, I tell you: try participating in an actual LGBTQ-friendly fandom and YOU WILL SEE for yourself how people get excited and supportive of LGBTQ characters. You're tripping if you think there's no one tweeting, e-mailing and/or messaging Marvel about Northstar, Iceman, Wiccan, Hulkling, America Chavez, Angela, Sera, Hercules, Valkyrie, Rictor, Shatterstar, Mystique, Psylocke, Karolina Dean, Julie Power, Xavin, Moondragon, Phyla-Vell, Karma, Daken, etc. Just because you're not seeing it, it doesn't mean it's not happening.

And no, in a lot of those cases, Marvel is not even listening to the fans. How long have we been begging for the Xavin plot to be resolved in Runaways? How angry were people when Bendis fucked over Serangela, and no one has bothered to fix it ever since? How many times Wiccan and Hulkling are brought up as someone's favorite gay couple, and yet they keep being shoved in limbo? How many people are totally on board with Deadpool having a male love interest, yet that never happens? How furious were people at the straightwashing of Hercules and the lack of anything to make up for it? How often you see people praying Moondragon and Phyla-Vell will ever be relevant to the GOTG franchise again? How many people thought America Chavez deserved a relaunch because her first solo didn't do her justice? I could go on and on here.... So I'm sorry, but trying to shift the blame to the fans here, implying they're not being supportive enough and that they mistreat what they have is just utter bullshit to me, 'cause I've been in this fandom long enough and I've seen the behavior of enough fans to know it's not about us not being loud enough, it's simply about our voices not always being heard, no matter how hard we try. And maybe that's why people resort to things like shipping Captain America with Bucky. When Marvel refuses to let a queer person even be acknowledged in their movies, I don't blame anyone for creating their own headcanon.

You said pretty much everything I wanted to say too, thanks for doing the heavy lifting!

[Tiamatty]

I may be alone on this, but I could see Cyclops coming out as trans. Not even completely sure why. Just something I would definitely be able to believe.

From the list, I think I could also see a bi or ace Laura. Maybe biromantic and asexual, or grey ace, perhaps. (And I really, really think Jubilee should be biromantic asexual.)

Storm should come out as pansexual. I'd like Kitty to be bi. And Illyana is 100% gay. Beyond question.

[Supershamu]

Gonna have to go with the "none" train.

I would be much more excited to see new and innovative characters representing all sorts of diverse roles that are built and stand on their own without being propped up by an already established character. I know there are arguments for characters simply "coming out" and "they were always that way," but I think a lot of comic buying people find that to be a bit "cheap". I bet you can bridge the comic buying gap in a way that will actually positively effect sales in many cases with a bit of creativity.

Perhaps even nab people who would not normally be interested in comic tales of sexuality.

[Bl00dwerK]

Laura. Marvel could launch a new MAX series called XXX-23.

[Supershamu]

Laura. Marvel could launch a new MAX series called XXX-23.

Oooohhh yeaaahhhh!

[Jabare]

Gambit......

[Vegan Daddy]

Gambit......

I know there's an issue where Gambit kisses a man whose consciousness has been transferred to a woman's body...or something like that. It's more playful than anything but still.

Edit: found it

[Daniel22]

Marvel owns Star Wars...
So Luke Skywalker.
Just for the sheer spectacle of the reactions it would cause.

[legion_quest]

Marvel owns Star Wars...
So Luke Skywalker.
Just for the sheer spectacle of the reactions it would cause.

I'd actually love this, just because I love seeing those extreme reactions from people.

[Daniel22]

I'd actually love this, just because I love seeing those extreme reactions from people.

Can you imagine? People had heart attacks because Disney let girls in the clubhouse.. Turning their unacknowledged crush gay would be too much for some people to take..

[GOLGO 13]

Didn't see Captain America as a choice.

[Will Evans]

I don’t know about gay.

But as in bisexual/queer, we now have on panel confirmation on Hercules and Kate “Kitty” Pryde.

[Laufeyson]

Magik and Kitty Pryde are supposed to be lesbian by now, while Logan and Laura are supposed to be bi.