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  1. #16
    "Emma is STILL right! Vegeta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soubhagya View Post
    No explanation is needed there. Resistance is not into suicide attacks. You loose both ships and people who are precious. Unlike the almost limitless resources of the First Order, the Resistance are really constrained with regards to manpower and equipment.
    Considering one capital ship wiped out a majority of the First Order fleet, it seems like a decent use of a limited resource. Plus, you can have a droid pilot the damn thing. C-3P0's role has been severely reduced to cameo, and we know he can pilot ships (as seen in Revenge of the Sith and Star Tours: the Adventure Continues.) why not?
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegeta View Post
    Considering one capital ship wiped out a majority of the First Order fleet, it seems like a decent use of a limited resource. Plus, you can have a droid pilot the damn thing. C-3P0's role has been severely reduced to cameo, and we know he can pilot ships (as seen in Revenge of the Sith and Star Tours: the Adventure Continues.) why not?
    That trick may have broke the Supremacy but it's not like people couldn't evacuate on the other side of the ship. The thing is massive and it had a fleet of 30 stardestroyers with 9 going down with half of the Supremacy, but that's still 21 on your tail and everyone and everything else docked on the other side of the Supremacy. It's like aiming a headshot at a bunch of people standing in a line, it's just not a viable solution. 3PO also had his memory wiped after ROTS so we have no idea if he can pilot or not, regardless he's still Leia's and the Skywalker's droid.
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  3. #18
    Incredible Member ClanAskani's Avatar
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    This stupid scene is a prime example of why movies like Last Jedi need to have test screenings. Lucasfilm & Disney don't want to risk leaks, but filmmakers are too close to the material to be objective or see the scene how an audience will see it and get that it's not working.

  4. #19
    Astonishing Member Anthony W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegeta View Post
    Considering one capital ship wiped out a majority of the First Order fleet, it seems like a decent use of a limited resource. Plus, you can have a droid pilot the damn thing. C-3P0's role has been severely reduced to cameo, and we know he can pilot ships (as seen in Revenge of the Sith and Star Tours: the Adventure Continues.) why not?
    But then C-3P0 would never complete the journey of character development he started down when he got his red arm. How trippy would it be if C-3PO turned traitor in the last film?

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony W View Post
    But then C-3P0 would never complete the journey of character development he started down when he got his red arm. How trippy would it be if C-3PO turned traitor in the last film?
    He already did, briefly, in ATTACK OF THE CLONES.

    J.J. Abrams would become the most hated man in STAR WARS fandom if he were to legit turn C3PO into a villain.

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  6. #21
    Astonishing Member Coal Tiger's Avatar
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    Here's the explanation: She's a Skywalker.

  7. #22
    "Emma is STILL right! Vegeta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperiorIronman View Post
    That trick may have broke the Supremacy but it's not like people couldn't evacuate on the other side of the ship. The thing is massive and it had a fleet of 30 stardestroyers with 9 going down with half of the Supremacy, but that's still 21 on your tail and everyone and everything else docked on the other side of the Supremacy. It's like aiming a headshot at a bunch of people standing in a line, it's just not a viable solution. 3PO also had his memory wiped after ROTS so we have no idea if he can pilot or not, regardless he's still Leia's and the Skywalker's droid.
    3P0 was just a humorous example, any droid will do with the proper programming (astromechs, etc.) And if the Resistance is abandoning the capital ship anyways, I see absolutely no reason not to turn said ship into a hyperspace missile. Just you saying it's not a viable solution doesn't make it so.

    Also, all the Skywalkers are dead. Other then Kylo Ren. Why not send the family droid back to him at lightspeed?
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  8. #23
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    This thread makes me wonder why people need so much narrative spoon fed to them anymore.

    If a filmmaker shows a villain crossing their fingers, he's lying.

    I swear if Star Wars, Jaws, Back to the Future, etc. came out now, the kids would be pissed because their hand wasn't being held.
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  9. #24
    Incredible Member ClanAskani's Avatar
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    This is the first time we've seen Leia use physical Force powers on-screen. The audience had no idea she could do this. While Force powers are rather vague in the OT, it's not clear in TESB that Leia is Force-sensitive when Luke is able to contact her for a rescue. Before it was revealed Leia was Luke's sister in ROTJ, people could have assumed Luke can telepathically contact anyone.

    The problem I have is that Rian thinks this is badass. Leia physically using the Force for the first time doing something heroic saving her friends would be badass. Saving herself is not badass. In fact, both screenings I went to there was very awkward laughter. When it's released on Blu-ray I want to take that scene and add a shark that Leia has to jump over to get back to the ship. And maybe the frig from Indiana Jones and The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.
    Last edited by ClanAskani; 01-21-2018 at 11:13 PM.

  10. #25
    Spam Hunter Conn Seanery's Avatar
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    Just because it was the first time we've seen her physically use the Force doesn't mean the audience universally soiled themselves in contempt. It's been a long time since RotJ, I have no problem believing Leia may have picked up a few things along the way. And if we're using in-theater experience as unassailable proof, in both my viewings of TLJ no one (audibly) had a problem with it.

    If you don't think saving oneself from death in space is worthy of being considered badass, I suspect you may have set the bar a bit too high.
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  11. #26
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    I don't see it so much as Leia saving herself with the Force as the Force saving her. The Force appears to be a living entity unto itself, and it does seem to favor specific individuals at specific moments, for reasons that only the Force itself knows.

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  12. #27
    Ultimate Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    I think Snoke's fleet was pretty much around the same size as the ESB fleet, as far as number of ships were concerned. The rest of the FO fleet was probably doing their "conquering the galaxy" thing that Rey mentioned.

    The Raddus-like ROTJ's Mon Calamari cruisers- is also much larger than the other Resistance ships as we see in the first scene, if they did that the same thing they wouldn't have had as much an impact.
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  13. #28
    Astonishing Member Soubhagya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegeta View Post
    Considering one capital ship wiped out a majority of the First Order fleet, it seems like a decent use of a limited resource. Plus, you can have a droid pilot the damn thing. C-3P0's role has been severely reduced to cameo, and we know he can pilot ships (as seen in Revenge of the Sith and Star Tours: the Adventure Continues.) why not?
    Your question is then based on the assumption that all people in films are most intelligent and always make the best possible choices. That there is no scope for any character to make a less then the best possible plan. That the plan which you think is the best has to come into the mind of a character.

    The plan they had was pretty reasonable. There was no way to escape with their ship. They had to abandon it. So, let one person continue flying the ship to keep the FO from suspecting anything while others leave. By the time FO could know that the ship was empty they would be safe at Crait. This plan seems reasonable. I don't think anyone can say its not a good plan.

    I will still say its a bad plan to crash your ship into the FO ships because you end up loosing your own ship in the process. Their priority was escape and what would such ramming do to help that? It was a split second, last ditch effort by Holdo. A moment of brilliance and heroism. Maybe they could not make such a plan before because they were not genius level intelligent people who can think of the best possible plan which involved not only their escape but also damage to the FO ships in the process. Your suggested plan is simply to do some more damage. Its not truly helpful for the escape itself. Remember their priority was survival. They had lost a lot of people already.

    It actually brings another problem. Why was FO not equipped to face such an unexpected attack? Surely in the galaxy's history someone must have tried it. It appears to be such an easy thing to do. But it looks like no one has ever tried something like this before.

    Its not a good plan to waste one of your ships just to cause some damage when your plan is to escape. And even it was better, its just a film. Characters can make less then the optimal plans. Why even Leia brought the Death Star plans to Yavin even though she suspected that she was being left off far too easily in New Hope. Or the two people at death star letting go of the escape pods because there was no signs of life. Just look at How It Should Have Ended on youtube there are loads of films with less then the best possible decisions and in a lot of cases even unreasonable decisions or plans.

    At least the plan was a good one which stands up to logic as a reasonable plan of escape.


    Quote Originally Posted by ClanAskani View Post
    This is the first time we've seen Leia use physical Force powers on-screen. The audience had no idea she could do this. While Force powers are rather vague in the OT, it's not clear in TESB that Leia is Force-sensitive when Luke is able to contact her for a rescue. Before it was revealed Leia was Luke's sister in ROTJ, people could have assumed Luke can telepathically contact anyone.

    The problem I have is that Rian thinks this is badass. Leia physically using the Force for the first time doing something heroic saving her friends would be badass. Saving herself is not badass. In fact, both screenings I went to there was very awkward laughter. When it's released on Blu-ray I want to take that scene and add a shark that Leia has to jump over to get back to the ship. And maybe the frig from Indiana Jones and The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.
    Then you cite just two examples. One can't say that every theater had the same reaction. When i went to watch Justice League the crowd was erupting in applause. There was so much cheering. But that's not the case everywhere. Its Cinemascore is B+. The same as the second Fifty Shades film. JL did not have a really good multiplier or word of mouth. Maybe my theater had a lot of DCEU fans. One or two experiences can't be a complete representative. My theater did not have any audible reaction for that.

    Pulling out Force powers out of nowhere has been in lots of Star Wars films. The Emperor did that Force lightening in ROTJ. It had no setup whatsoever as it came out of the blue. Why even Luke's force pull for his light saber in ESB in that Wampa cave was the first time anyone saw such a thing. I can understand its jarring. It came out of nowhere. But in films which have space wizards its not out of place even though it can feel like that to some people.

    I am pleased to see her use her Force abilities for once. She was a Skywalker and Darth Vader happened to be her father. She could have had lots of potential which was unexplored.
    Last edited by Soubhagya; 01-22-2018 at 12:28 PM.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soubhagya View Post
    Pulling out Force powers out of nowhere has been in lots of Star Wars films. The Emperor did that Force lightening in ROTJ. It had no setup whatsoever as it came out of the blue. Why even Luke's force pull for his light saber in ESB in that Wampa cave was the first time anyone saw such a thing. I can understand its jarring. It came out of nowhere.
    I remember being surprised the first time I saw THE PHANTOM MENACE and saw Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon pull the "Force Run." I had no idea the Force enabled Jedi to momentarily become like the Flash.

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  15. #30
    Ultimate Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Although not quite the same, Luke does a pretty fast jump in ESB (prompting Vader to say the iconic "Impressive.Most impressive.") Apart from that, the earliest "Force speed" is pretty much in the 1997 PC game, Jedi Knight, although there's a written reference in the Shadows of the Empire novel published a year before.
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