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  1. #31
    Mighty Member Anthony W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClanAskani View Post
    This stupid scene is a prime example of why movies like Last Jedi need to have test screenings. Lucasfilm & Disney don't want to risk leaks, but filmmakers are too close to the material to be objective or see the scene how an audience will see it and get that it's not working.
    I doubt Disney cares as long as they make money hand over first.

  2. #32
    Astonishing Member Ken Ashcroft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buried Alien View Post
    I remember being surprised the first time I saw THE PHANTOM MENACE and saw Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon pull the "Force Run." I had no idea the Force enabled Jedi to momentarily become like the Flash.

    Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
    Well, Lucas did say that the prequels were the first chance that he had to show the Jedi in their prime and at the peak of their powers so no one until then knew just what they could do do using the force.

  3. #33
    "Emma is STILL right! Vegeta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soubhagya View Post
    Your question is then based on the assumption that all people in films are most intelligent and always make the best possible choices. That there is no scope for any character to make a less then the best possible plan. That the plan which you think is the best has to come into the mind of a character.
    Well it's out there now. I see no reason why anyone would not try this after the amazing results Holdo had with the tactic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soubhagya View Post
    The plan they had was pretty reasonable. There was no way to escape with their ship. They had to abandon it. So, let one person continue flying the ship to keep the FO from suspecting anything while others leave. By the time FO could know that the ship was empty they would be safe at Crait. This plan seems reasonable. I don't think anyone can say its not a good plan.
    It's not a good plan. It only works if every member of the First Order doesn't look out the window and see the escape ships, also don't they have radar or scanners to pick up this stuff as well? From what I can tell the Resistance didn't have cloaking devices or sensor jammers. And no high ranking official needs to sacrifice herself to pilot the empty ship, a droid can do that as well!

    Quote Originally Posted by Soubhagya View Post
    I will still say its a bad plan to crash your ship into the FO ships because you end up loosing your own ship in the process.
    If the ship is being abandoned, then it's already lost. Turn it into a hyperspace missile!


    Quote Originally Posted by Soubhagya View Post
    At least the plan was a good one which stands up to logic as a reasonable plan of escape.
    Maybe if they explained that the view and radar signals of the escape ships would be obscured by something, perhaps a moon or whatever, I'd buy it. But piling everyone into shieldless fragile lifeboats and hoping the First Order just doesn't notice is kind of a terrible idea.

    But back to the topic, I don't have an issue with Leia using the Force. Luke said in RotJ that in time she would learn to use the Force as well. My only issues are that she didn't use it more before Carrie's tragic death, and that the way it was filmed made it look ridiculous, visually.
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  4. #34
    Loony Scott Taylor's Avatar
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    The whole thing would not have seemed so weird if we hadn't all seen Guardians of the Galaxy do a better job with an unprotected space walk (twice!). In the first instance the guy lived only because he had celestial blood and in the second one the guy(s) doing it died pretty quickly.
    Last edited by Scott Taylor; 01-22-2018 at 05:49 PM.
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegeta View Post
    It's not a good plan. It only works if every member of the First Order doesn't look out the window and see the escape ships...
    They're at the extreme range of their turbolasers. Should be well beyond visual range.

    ...also don't they have radar or scanners to pick up this stuff as well? From what I can tell the Resistance didn't have cloaking devices or sensor jammers.
    That's because you weren't paying attention because they did.

  6. #36
    "Emma is STILL right! Vegeta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carabas View Post
    They're at the extreme range of their turbolasers. Should be well beyond visual range.
    Then how were they so accurately hitting the escape ships with the blasters if they couldn't see them?


    Quote Originally Posted by Soubhagya View Post
    That's because you weren't paying attention because they did.
    Guess so, don't tell me the FO also had some "anti-cloaking device device" because why wouldn't you run that ALL the time to prevent an ambush???

    Look, I like the movie just fine but it's in the same manner I enjoyed "Age of Ultron" or "Jurassic World."
    "The White Queen welcomes you, TO DIE!"

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegeta View Post
    Then how were they so accurately hitting the escape ships with the blasters if they couldn't see them?




    Guess so, don't tell me the FO also had some "anti-cloaking device device" because why wouldn't you run that ALL the time to prevent an ambush???

    Look, I like the movie just fine but it's in the same manner I enjoyed "Age of Ultron" or "Jurassic World."
    DJ sold out Rose and Finn so the FO found out. It's not that they have anti-cloak tech, it's that they are literally told the Resistance is escaping via transports the FO are overlooking. It's also not like they are looking for the transport ships and even then it's going to take a minute if they do know about them cause the the Raddus is in the way. They're largely obscured, mostly out of range, but when the heroes get sold out then the fleet just takes aim.
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  8. #38
    Astonishing Member Soubhagya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vegeta View Post
    Well it's out there now. I see no reason why anyone would not try this after the amazing results Holdo had with the tactic.
    Yes that's what i think now. It can happen more number of times.

    It's not a good plan. It only works if every member of the First Order doesn't look out the window and see the escape ships, also don't they have radar or scanners to pick up this stuff as well? From what I can tell the Resistance didn't have cloaking devices or sensor jammers. And no high ranking official needs to sacrifice herself to pilot the empty ship, a droid can do that as well!
    They can't just look out the window and see that. They were keeping a look at the ships. You don't chase someone without keeping an eye on them. And ships coming out of it must be the most obvious thing to watch out for. I will go with a simple logic. They were not able to see that. Plain and simple. Only after DJ sold them off they could track them. Otherwise the plan was working just fine. How is a plan of evacuation a plan when the enemies can spot you by something as simple as looking out of their window? Maybe they used some kind of cloaking device as you mentioned. I read something along these lines somewhere. The film did not tell it how exactly they were undetectable through the windows of the FO ship. I am fine with that. But its clear in the film that

    1. They were giving a chase. How do you give a chase and not be on the lookout for any escaping ships. Are the FO morons?
    2. After DJ sold them out they were trapped.

    It works fine. One does not need every single detail in my opinion.

    If the ship is being abandoned, then it's already lost. Turn it into a hyperspace missile!
    As i told you, its easy to think of this in a film theater. In war situation its possible that one might overlook something which is possible when there is a high priority to simply escape with their lives. If we coldly calculate stuff many films can see better results then what the characters of the film thought of. There are tonnes of films with this. Why shall TLJ be made an exception? Why they chose this? It drives the plot. Its not that they were foolish seeing that the plan was working till DJ sold them off.

    Maybe if they explained that the view and radar signals of the escape ships would be obscured by something, perhaps a moon or whatever, I'd buy it. But piling everyone into shieldless fragile lifeboats and hoping the First Order just doesn't notice is kind of a terrible idea.
    Yes some kind of explanation would have been better. I am fine with it. They were escaping and were sold out. Pretty simple. I don't need every explanation/detail. But i can understand why one may not be fine with it.

    But back to the topic, I don't have an issue with Leia using the Force. Luke said in RotJ that in time she would learn to use the Force as well. My only issues are that she didn't use it more before Carrie's tragic death, and that the way it was filmed made it look ridiculous, visually.
    There weren't a lot of films in between ROTJ and TLJ with the character of Princess Leia. There were three prequels. One film TFA where her role was pretty small. The original plan for Episode IX might have involved Leia using the Force more with this scene as foreshadowing for the next one. If they wanted that rhyming scheme of Star Wars, Episode IX might even had a light saber battle between Kylo and Leia mirroring Luke and Vader in ROTJ. Who knows?

    One can understand why she did not display such powers more. She did not train like Luke and chose to focus on politics and rebuilding the New Republic after the Emperor's downfall. But she always had the potential to do that. And something happened in the life and death situation and she managed to tap into that Force even if she did not have any proper training. In fact, i think her being safe in space might be something she did subconsciously. She had a lot of talent. She had Vader as her father.

    About ridiculous looking visual i can say that it did not look so to me. But if someone sees that, it's fine. Its subjective. People are different and the same thing can look different to different people in case of art. Its totally fine. If someone has the right to like something he or she has all right to dislike something. One can't really change that.


    Some have complained that she really looked like Mary Poppins with her hand extended as the pose resembles that of Mary Poppins.



    It did not help that yet another film came out this year and stole so many hearts with a reference to Mary Poppins.




    Some have even called it promotion for the Mary Poppins sequel coming out next year. I can see why she lifts her hand. That's a clear visual signifying use of the Force. The Force pull requires that extending hand. In vaccum there is hardly any obstacle and by keeping the body almost in a still pose is fine when one can see that she was injured. In that condition she needed a hospital bed. If it looks unintentionally funny or weird one can't truly help it.

    Personally i had no problems. And i am sure many fans did not have either. In fact i thought it was cool to see her surviving that ordeal when it appeared that this was the end. The last time i was going to see Leia.
    Last edited by Soubhagya; 01-23-2018 at 11:12 AM.

  9. #39
    Fantastic Member tv horror's Avatar
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    While not a fan of this movie, my thought at the time was that it was Luke who guided her back to safety as you can clearly see her hand opening as if her hand was being held.
    Hail Hydra!

  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cel View Post
    There was that one theatre that caught flack for putting a disclaimer about the now famous hyperspace attack. They felt they had to tell the audience that the sudden loss of sound was deliberately in the movie and not the theatre's sound system failing.

    As far as Leia, I didn't need anyone to tell me how she did what she did. She has Skywalker blood. Skywalkers are bad-asses. 'Nuff said.
    Wasn't it pretty much stated in Return of the Jedi that she had at least as much potential with the force as Luke? Based on that her using the force reflexively in a sort of last ditch manner to save her life(kind of like adrenaline on mystic steroids) made sense to me.

  11. #41
    Non-fanboy Member Cel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sirmarkus View Post
    Wasn't it pretty much stated in Return of the Jedi that she had at least as much potential with the force as Luke?
    Not exactly. I think Luke just said that the Force runs strong in his family, but we can take it that Leia had some kind of Force potential.
    Based on that her using the force reflexively in a sort of last ditch manner to save her life(kind of like adrenaline on mystic steroids) made sense to me.
    Yeah, if you had seen Episode VI or learned somehow that Leia was Luke's twin, then it isn't something totally implausible that Leia could Force-pull herself to safety and even used the Force to prevent herself from dying instantly in the first place.
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  12. #42
    Astonishing Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soubhagya View Post


    Some have complained that she really looked like Mary Poppins with her hand extended as the pose resembles that of Mary Poppins.



    It did not help that yet another film came out this year and stole so many hearts with a reference to Mary Poppins.




    Some have even called it promotion for the Mary Poppins sequel coming out next year. I can see why she lifts her hand. That's a clear visual signifying use of the Force. The Force pull requires that extending hand. In vaccum there is hardly any obstacle and by keeping the body almost in a still pose is fine when one can see that she was injured. In that condition she needed a hospital bed. If it looks unintentionally funny or weird one can't truly help it.

    Personally i had no problems. And i am sure many fans did not have either. In fact i thought it was cool to see her surviving that ordeal when it appeared that this was the end. The last time i was going to see Leia.

    Although a bit older, Doctor Who's Missy (The female version of the Master) is also a Mary Poppins reference (Especially in Death In Heaven, where she floats down with an umbrella).

    I think that could've worked as a write-out for Leia, with perhaps Holdo taking over her role for the rest of the film and Episode XI, but that would've probably meant a large number of costly reshoots, and would've meant a great deal of her final performance would have been lost, including her last scene with Luke.


    On a side note, Leia embraces her Jedi heritage in the original EU right around this point in the timeline as well ("The Swarm War") after years of either being a politician or a military leader, similar to the way the movies worked out.
    An extra parallel is that when she does, her son likewise goes to the dark side.
    Last edited by ChrisIII; 01-24-2018 at 07:10 AM.
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  13. #43
    "Emma is STILL right! Vegeta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cel View Post
    Not exactly. I think Luke just said that the Force runs strong in his family, but we can take it that Leia had some kind of Force potential.
    After that he says that "my sister has it" and that "in time you'll learn to use it as I have." So it's plausible to expect her to have had some training over the years. It's just a shame her one and only on screen use of it was so downright goofy looking.
    "The White Queen welcomes you, TO DIE!"

  14. #44
    Fantastic Member tv horror's Avatar
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    On the hand what if Kylo saved her life as he was angry at the ship being attacked, again this theory plus Luke are okay with me heck even Yoda could have stepped in and I would be happy but not while she was unconscious that does not work for me.
    Hail Hydra!

  15. #45
    The Fastest Post Alive! Buried Alien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tv horror View Post
    On the hand what if Kylo saved her life as he was angry at the ship being attacked, again this theory plus Luke are okay with me heck even Yoda could have stepped in and I would be happy but not while she was unconscious that does not work for me.
    The Force sometimes exerts its own will upon the galaxy. As far back as A NEW HOPE, Obi-Wan told Luke that the Force partially controls one's actions. The Force itself decided that it was not Leia's time to go, and not in that manner (perhaps because it would soon claim Luke).

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