Pro/Con Workshop Poll

[CRaymond]

I like a lot of female heroes. I especially like Hawkwoman and Hawkgirl separated.

Yeah, the wings are such a strong visual. Describing a world wherein an alien from a female-dominated spy-warrior world is a flight mentor to a spunky magical reincarnated sidekick, who actually ESTABLISHED the world the alien mentor is from... is a relationship I'd want to read.

[Trey Strain]

Okay, but you do understand that books have a book editor and a group editor and those are the ones directly responsible for the stories aside from the creative teams. I mean I get, you like the GL franchise and you're unhappy and want to be doing it instead of others but now you're reaching and frankly, sound petty.

No I don't want to be doing it. DC couldn't afford me. Heh, heh. But to assign responsibility for a wreck is a necessary exercise, especially when the driver is still operating the vehicle. The Highway Patrol does it every day.

If the Green Lantern comics were selling well, I think you'd be eager to give him credit for it. And he'd deserve it.

I'm not being unfair to Johns. He's not some poor writer who's struggling to feed his family. He's got it made. He could stop working right now and never miss a meal. But how do you fix a situation when the person who created it is still calling the shots? It can't happen.

When a guy gets promoted, his approach doesn't go away. It gets written in stone, more firmly than ever.

So what do you consider a success? 50 issues? 100? 500?

A success doesn't get canceled. Well, maybe once every 25 years.

[BaneBreaker]

No I don't want to be doing it. DC couldn't afford me. Heh, heh. But to assign responsibility for a wreck is a necessary exercise, especially when the driver is still operating the vehicle. The Highway Patrol does it every day.

If the Green Lantern comics were selling well, I think you'd be eager to give him credit for it. And he'd deserve it.

I'm not being unfair to Johns. He's not some poor writer who's struggling to feed his family. He's got it made. He could stop working right now and never miss a meal. But how do you fix a situation when the person who created it is still calling the shots? It can't happen.

When a guy gets promoted, his approach doesn't go away. It gets written in stone, more firmly than ever.



A success doesn't get canceled. Well, maybe once every 25 years.

No, I would give credit to the current team since they are the ones working on it. I do enjoy your hyperbole though. I guess promotion works differently where you work. I've been promoted and I changed the way things were done in my new role from the way they were done by my predecessor. The same can be said for the people that followed me.

[Jcogginsa]

So, should we create a thread for this Hawk discussion?

[CRaymond]

So, should we create a thread for this Hawk discussion?

Either that or spill blood over Geoff Johns' Emotions.

:-)

[Jcogginsa]

Well, the hawks do have more votes

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I wish I could change my vote from the Emotional Spectrum to Green Arrow.

I would enjoy discussing him.

Anything to add to my assesment?

That would probably be the only exposure to Green Arrow for many people.

That or when he guest star's on a show or cartoon. This is the problem for Green Arrow.

He may be Batman with a bow but he's still Batman With a Bow!

If Bats can hold a comic and/or cartoon, Arrow should be able too.

Greg Weisman of YJ fame pitched a spinoff focused on the Arrow family so they did try to get him his own cartoon. I wouldn't mind of Greg Weisman took over the comic because Green Arrow is one of his top five favorite characters. It might not sell a lot more than it is now but it would be interesting to see.

I think just summing him up as Batman with a bow is part of the problem because if you could just do a batman cartoon or show, what s the point of giving green arrow a shot?

My whole deal with Robin is that "Robin" isn't a character identity so much as a role that serves Batman. Whereas other characters can temporarily take on the role of "Batman", it always returns to Bruce Wayne. Robin is a transitional role for a young hero to move on from... resulting in ever-increasing redundancy rather than uniqueness. Dick Grayson successfully becomes Nightwing, Jason Todd eventually becomes Red Hood(bad name), Tim Drake, Red Robin(?) is currently in limbo. And what does Damian Wayne have to look forward to once a writer decides he wants to come up with a newer better Robin?

IF Robin is just a role, I felt the We Are Robin title was genius. Everyone young becomes Robin. Everyone works to fight crime as a grassroots movement. Sadly, it fell apart before making any real waves in the Batcave.

If were up to me, Dick Grayson would never have retired the name Robin, and rather had the name mature along with him. Subsequent sidekicks of Batman would've taken on other names that they could own and mature with as well. We never would've gotten We Are Robin, but that's ok. We would've had something else.

how would you mature robin as a mantle/role tho?

[scary harpy]

Anything to add to my assessment?

I was so impressed by your assessment that I wished to change my vote. I realized just how much there is to discuss about Green Arrow.

I think just summing him up as Batman with a bow is part of the problem because if you could just do a batman cartoon or show, what s the point of giving green arrow a shot?

Variety!

While I want another Batman cartoon (like now!), I am tired of Batman & Robin with Batgirl versus Catwoman, Joker, Mr. Freeze, Penguin and Riddler again!

New villians to oppose and new heroes to see in action. I would watch a Green Arrow cartoon.

[CRaymond]

how would you mature robin as a mantle/role tho?

"Robin" doesn't need to have the gravitas of BAT-MAN, SUPER-MAN, etc. "Nightwing", despite the silver age story behind the name, always felt like pre-edgelord 80s manufactured gravitas. Plus, it takes him down another step of trying to emulate Batman, rather than run with and build his OWN brand.

Robin is his callsign as a member of the Titans. That would be(come) his defining context, not his past partnership with Batman. I'd never have given him his own book, and I'd never have put him in Bludhaven, Gotham, or any single city. He's the global, friendly Batman who does acrobatic tricks for the kids, and sells T-Shirts and action figures that benefit charities.

Costume has already been done:


Batman wouldn't have a revolving door of Robins, but he would have a variety of songbird sidekicks.
Sparrow Barbara Gordon
Jay Jason Todd
Chickadee Carrie Kelly
Wren Timothy Drake
Starling Stephanie Brown
Lark Duke Thomas
Bluebird Harper Row

[Ascended]

It borrows HEAVILY from Stargate the movie, but with Romeo & Juliet as wizards making a Zentradi space-fold instead of relying on an ancient alien Goa'uld. In the 8,000 years between ancient Egypt and now, Thanagar becomes an interstellar empire reliant on slave trade for expansion and war.

The only thing I haven't properly figured out is the Native American connection, with Northwind and Feithera.

I like this. Its very creative.

As for the Northwind thing.....that was the Infinity Inc guy with the city of bird people or something right? Doesn't seem like an idea that easily folds into the Hawks, and since it never caught traction the first time.....I'd either ignore it completely or retcon the hell out of it and just say it was one of Carter and Shay's many lives, and leave it at that.

I haven't read Red Lanterns prior to Soule taking over, but when he did, that was a good book. Guy was really great as a Red and I wouldn't mind seeing him there again. I'm not sure what you mean but it was a "proven worst idea ever", it did run for 40 issues.

It sold solidly under Soule as I recall, but struggled before and after him. I seem to recall hearing that DC had decided to cut the book once Soule left, but gave it those last few issues to....either finish off a trade's worth of story, or hit a nice round issue number or something.....could be wrong about that though; memory's fuzzy.

And being a Red was the best thing they've done with Guy since Hal died and Guy got a little perspective out of it.

I like a lot of female heroes. I especially like Hawkwoman and Hawkgirl separated.

I dont dislike that, but I think the Hawks are confusing enough, even for long-time readers, and until the mythos gets smoothed out its better to keep it to just one female Hawk.

[CRaymond]

I'm going to bring these comments over to the Hawk Pro/Con thread.

[scary harpy]

"Robin" doesn't need to have the gravitas of BAT-MAN, SUPER-MAN, etc. "Nightwing", despite the silver age story behind the name, always felt like pre-edgelord 80s manufactured gravitas. Plus, it takes him down another step of trying to emulate Batman, rather than run with and build his OWN brand.

Robin is his callsign as a member of the Titans. That would be(come) his defining context, not his past partnership with Batman. I'd never have given him his own book, and I'd never have put him in Bludhaven, Gotham, or any single city. He's the global, friendly Batman who does acrobatic tricks for the kids, and sells T-Shirts and action figures that benefit charities.

Costume has already been done:


Batman wouldn't have a revolving door of Robins, but he would have a variety of songbird sidekicks.
Sparrow Barbara Gordon
Jay Jason Todd
Chickadee Carrie Kelly
Wren Timothy Drake
Starling Stephanie Brown
Lark Duke Thomas
Bluebird Harper Row

I liked the costume with red.

I also like your songbird names.

Red Robin needs a new name in the worst way. Your way, they would already have individual names.