Hawkpeople of Thanagar Pro/Con Workshop

[Zero Hunter]

Ha! That’s cool. I never read Aquaman. Sounds about right though. Aquaman would benefit from the same pulpy themes; he’s from the same time period as the Hawks.

If you ever want to read some great Aquaman stuff and see where he finally shed that lame Superfriends image he was saddled with for decades, and became a baddass this is the trade to look for. It comes out in a few weeks.

[Ascended]

If you ever want to read some great Aquaman stuff and see where he finally shed that lame Superfriends image he was saddled with for decades, and became a baddass this is the trade to look for. It comes out in a few weeks.

I'll vouch for that as well. That was the series that really introduced me to Arthur and I've always been a fan of that run. It's a little "90's" in some spots, but its damn good writing.

If nothing else you'll see where the Justice League movie got its Aquaman from.

[scary harpy]

and Golden Eagle?

He's part of the Hawk family. What should be done with him?

[MajorHoy]

and Golden Eagle?

Has he shown up in a story since before Flashpoint?

[Sutekh]

Has he shown up in a story since before Flashpoint?

Last I heard he was the sex slave of Forerunner. Yikes.

[Ascended]

Yeah, I think a lot of the characters who were tagged onto the Hawks just need to be "written off" as one of their reincarnated lives, and left at that.

This property is complicated enough as it is. I think one of the key components to success for the Hawks going forward is simplifying and streamlining their mythos.

[Lightning Rider]

I thought Geoff Johns did a terrific job of synthesizing the GA Hawkman with the SA/Hawkworld one. It made perfect sense that Thanagarians would've traveled to Ancient Egyptians, fitting with the classic theory of Alien involvement with Ancient Egypt.

Me too. I think the love story between Carter and Shayera/Kendra is a more unique angle than Aliens (which we have plenty of) but there's no need to throw out what Thanagar has to offer.

I think the place itself needs to be brought back to the fore, though, if it's going to exist as part of the current characters' origins.

[Lightning Rider]

But something to consider; what if Carter was reborn as a woman? How would that impact things? Would Shay be a lesbian? Would she love girl-Carter but not be attracted to other women? Would she not be attracted to Carter at all, and if so, how does that impact their reincarnation cycle?

How interesting!

[Incognito]

I see the Thanagarians as the Shi'ar of the DC Universe not because they are an avian-like race but they have unparalleled technology. Thangaraians should use the properties of Nth metal for various purposes other than weapons, they should create space-warping technology that allows for instantaneous travel between galaxies. They should specialised technology made of Nth Metal to neutralise magic users and extra-dimensional beings because extra-dimensional beings and spirits have a unique vibrational frequency and magic , also their Nth Metal could give them a shot of defeating beings like The Flash because Nth Metal can play with vibrations so maybe it could mess up with his connection to the speed force.

[Ascended]

They've done that sort of thing here and there. In the JLU cartoon, Hawkgirl was their go-to weapon against magic because her Nth metal mace disrupted mystical energy.

Back in the day Carter had an artifact called the Hand of Ra (or something) that was, I guess, pure Nth metal and so potent he was able to knock Superman around like a ragdoll by bending gravimetric and electromagnetic forces. He basically hit Clark with all the weight and force of the planet earth. New52 Carter used it to regenerate and heal himself.

Nth metal is badass. And it could be even more badass with a little development.

[CRaymond]

What if Kendra was the reincarnation of Carter?

The book could still be titled Hawkman.

[Sutekh]

The reincarnation thing has endless potential. Has he ever reincarnated as a woman? An Asian person? A native American? (Ooh, an Aztec Hawkman, associating himself with Quetzalcoutl, or a Algonquian Hawkman with the thunderbird, sounds funky...) A non-human, such as an animal, or an alien (or an Atlantean or an Amazon!)? There could be an entire mini-series dealing with various hawk-incarnations throughout history, and how 'Carter' was involved in all sorts of historical events, in other lives.

Goodness, maybe he was even *Egyptian* once (as in, Semetic / Middle-Eastern brown, or maybe even north African black, not generically white...).

[Barbatos666]

Its a tricky thing, many will feel that this is appropriation of non white culture by a White Man. I prefer the space cop myself and the debate continues lol.

[CRaymond]

It’s appropriation even if they start as ancient Egyptians?

If it were up to me, Kendra and [boy] would be reborn as underprivileged mixed race blatinx in New Orleans, or the DC equivalent. "St. Roch" sounds ugly.

I prefer the space cop myself and the debate continues lol.

Did you happen to find my retcon idea? It starts with wizarding lovers Romeo & Juliet in Kemet on the run from magical authority. They transport an entire village to another world, die together, and get reborn where they started.

Thanagar, Nth Metal, and reincarnation are a direct product of desperate lovers in Ancient Egypt. We're not asked to be reliant on magical asteroids or ancient aliens, and everything has its origin on Earth.

Regarding Reincarnation
We've seen on Legends of Tomorrow that one of the couple can outlive the other. I didn't like that, as it suggests Carter's soul is held in a holding tank until Sheira's soul joins his in finding new bodies. Or maybe I do, as maybe the ghost becomes a past hero... Hrmmm

What are the limits in how you envision the Reincarnation process for the Hawks?

I'd always imagined the magic spell to be a re-purposed "curse", that binds their lives together. Kha-Tar and Chay-Ara are more powerful together than apart, gaining healing factors when you add adrenaline. This gradually wanes in later years, and they are each susceptible to corrosion of mind and body. When one dies, so to does the other. This ensures they are reborn into new bodies at the same time.

Another wrinkle in the spell ensures the two new bodies are born in the same general area. One is never born in fuedal Japan while the other is born in contemporaneous Africa. They are always born within 25 miles -or so- of the other, on nearly the same day.

*****

I'd have them slowly gain their memories over time, starting as nightmares in puberty, and later on as instincts and skills in adulthood. Maybe all memories are gained by age 40.

In any case, the white Carter Hall and Shiera Sanders found each other in the late 30s in their early 20s. They became Hawk heros, fought Nazis, helped formed the Society, and made close friends with several other heroes, including Martian Manhunter and Zatanna.

By the late 1960s, they had to retire from crimefighting, but had gained memories of their first lives' past on Thanagar, and the threat it suggested. They worked with J'onn to establish anti-Invasion protocols, and hoped they'd be alive and able to help repel the Thanagarians. But old age caught up with them first, and they died together in 2000.

Kendra and [boy] were only 15 when Wingman Shayera Thal arrived on Earth.

[Agent Z]

My idea:

Kendra Munoz is the daughter of Dr. Gabriel Munoz and Shayera Hol. Shayera wound up on Earth while injured after a battle and was found and nursed back to health by Gabriel and the two fell in love. Kendra grew up during a turning point in Thanagar's culture were the planet began putting more emphasis on science and arts than war (think the evolution of the Mandalorians in Star Wars). However, some like Hro Talak, long for the older, uglier days. Think the Mandalorian Death Watch from Star Wars: The Clone Wars.