The Minority Displacement Thread

[Sundowhn]

From his first mini way back in the early 80s

Yeah, they messed up that continuity in later years.

https://goo.gl/images/mBLDRK

Morrison used her? O.o Did Aaron give her anything to do? That's why I mentioned the arm-candy thing.

IvX is the only legitimate one where a writer used her and was criticized for it. But it was more for her lack of action than anything. What you're listing is writer's having her on a team, not developing her.

Look at Rogue or Cyclops for comparison of characters that have story-lines that develop over time coherently. Even Emma's had more development despite her face-heel turn than Storm.

Yeah, her use has been off, even with a solo and leading two teams.

It just appears to be that what use she does get is criticized.

[Chaos Reigns]

Since Claremont, how many writers haven't been burned to bits by outspoken fans for misrepresenting Storm? There comes a point when it's easier not to bother, I think.

They earned the criticism. Do good and we will praise and adore you. Write trash and the criticism will flow. Just look at the love Claremont gets and compare that to Guggenheim.

[Sutekh]

Sorry for the derailment, my point was that in minority conversations Jewish people should be included and properly represented and don't dismiss them as not POC because that term tends to be used to dismiss the oppression they face from certain reactionary sectors of society (alt right, radical Muslims). And more proper representation from them should be included, not just kitty pride or magneto

And on that tangent, bring back Sabra!

[Chaos Reigns]

And on that tangent, bring back Sabra!

Let's get back to focusing on characters of color.

[L.R Johansson]

Well until recently one of the main X-Men editors was an Asian gay man. Daniel K, got fired mind you, but he was there for a while. I think most of the micromanaging comes from a higher point than the editors. They seem to be more of the caretakers of the writing staff... the ones that have less power and influence anyway.

DING DING DING DING!!!

We have a winner.

The right answer is indeed: "Ike".

[wano]

And on that tangent, bring back Sabra!

And more focus on lorna, she's mags daughter after all. It's also sad that iceman Jewish roots have been treated as an afterthought

Let's get back to focusing on characters of color.

Minority displacement thread, so Jews = minority

[skyvolt2000]

And that's the central conceit of the concept, isn't it? Marvel can have its cake and eat it too.

A few years back, I was trying to convert a woman who hates X-Men. When she was talking about the ridiculousness of a race of people having different powers, I mentioned how mutants were an allegory for minorities and Xavier/Magneto were MLK/Malcolm X parallels. She began to laugh on hearing this, asking why they were white if they were MLK/Malcolm X parallels. She had a point. Back then, I told her that it was risky for Stan Lee to make a comic book title about POC superheroes in the early 60's, but then what are current writers's excuse for not focusing on POC X-Men and mutants?

Because SOMEONE will take issue with that POC (not named Storm or X-23 or Psylocke or Jubliee or Monet) having a spotlight.

Excluding Prodigy when was the last time a black male had an entire arc about him? If Prodigy is the last we are talking before Wanda's famous words. That is over 10 years ago.


Also lets say you do an oppression or racism story with a white mutant-the story will FOREVER be focus on him being a mutant FIRST white male second.

Synch or Prodigy-its' RACE first and ONLY. He is viewed as a threat based on his skin tone ALONE. Discovering he has powers is a bonus.

[Chaos Reigns]

DING DING DING DING!!!

We have a winner.

The right answer is indeed: "Ike".

The question is with the merger looming why isn't he micromanaging the avengers the same way? Priest and Hickman were recently at the writers summit for them but the X-men are still getting wack writers.

[Midnight_v]

That takes investment beyond gimmicks. I think they had that going with Bishop but screwed that up. They could have gotten somewhere with Cecelia but she came up just before the X-Men movie by which time Marvel shifted all their books to reflect those rosters and storylines. Another opportunity was with Frenzy. But they let her fall through the cracks. She didn't have a rabid fanbase but she did have a solid base and depth to build off of. I don't recall anyone having an issue with her following AoX. She was a bright spot throughout her tenure on Gage's X-Men Legacy. In short it takes work and commitment to turn a character into a household name. Into something that people care about. Problem is, there haven't been many writers to keep up storylines from the previous run and editors willing to push the matter.

Well thats kind of my point.
The "X-men" have a fairly identifiable roster. So... someone WANTING to write the x-men today likely has it in their mind that they want to family drama, Wolverine: Cowboy/Samurai/Noble Savage (with or without his loli-teen side kick), prof-x touching his foerhead, storm pontificating, cyclops being the eldest brother from legends of the fall (Rightclops), and the inevitable couplings that happen when people are constantly in a wars state so Gambit/Rogue/whoever/whoever. As well as generic acceptable things about how racism, and/or genocide is bad. Course that last part is so tricky nowdays its almost better to NOT TRY, because as we all remember "Alex was right"/"Drink Hobo Piss".

Thats not even an unreasonable desire, or an uncommon one and every fanfiction from the really well crafted ones to the overwhelmingly fetishist slash flicks USE THE SAME BASIC X-MEN which is some variant of the 90's x-men.


So while I agree, it would take work and commitment to accomplish such a thing, even if you got something like Christopher Priest/Kris Anka x-men when that run ended the next person who gets the gig is going to like revert to something that looks like either morrisons x-men or Xmen Blue/Gold...

Meanwhile, many of the people in the thread seem to want that work only in a tertiary sense.
First behind, "I want what I WANT NOW! Its past time!" *holds breath*
and
2nd Behind: "I'm mad about how many great characters have been thrown away!

To be honest I'm not even condemning anyone for that because... I FEEL THE SAME WAY!

But I'm wise enough to think... "Will this book sell?" and "How long till we make this run a movie?"; "an anime/cartoon"? because thats what the people in
charge of the money have to consider etc etc.

I mentioned the gifted earlier, and... It was such a "diverse" cast but notably non-black sunspot pastiche, because why would they?(considering imho, the number one fetish/fear in America is Black Male sexuality even to this day)
and notably Trader got shot, and while he lived he never really had another moment in show. Then there's the Von Struckers...

but Ultimately, it was ambitious and impressive, and I think it was good for the x-verse. Thought they are still going to lens the show through white america, I don't believe you're getting away from that in the near future.

I don't think someones charging ahead to make a mostly racially non-white x-men at marvel. You'll get an Iceman, or Richter/Shatterstar/hell maybe even prodigy, (because hey: Free Publicity/controversy) but you're not getting a Bishop/White X-lady/White X-guy love triangle. No. I don't even care about bishop perse but just as an example.

So I guess the thing that expressing all this has taught me is that... On some level you guys have a serious point. There are as many/or more dead black mutants as living ones. Not to mention the minuscule amount of non-white looking hispanic ones. On the other hand... tactically... you'd need someone to write the x-men 15-20 years claremont style to shift the dynamic. Along with... probably a cartoon and/or a tv show.
annnndddd a roster... annndddd... pitch... that sounds legit (The X-men and Brotherhood are gone... We have to pick up the pieces.) but... to what end do we do this?

[Chaos Reigns]

Because SOMEONE will take issue with that POC (not named Storm or X-23 or Psylocke or Jubliee or Monet) having a spotlight.

Excluding Prodigy when was the last time a black male had an entire arc about him? If Prodigy is the last we are talking before Wanda's famous words. That is over 10 years ago.


Also lets say you do an oppression or racism story with a white mutant-the story will FOREVER be focus on him being a mutant FIRST white male second.

Synch or Prodigy-its' RACE first and ONLY. He is viewed as a threat based on his skin tone ALONE. Discovering he has powers is a bonus.

So? There are always those that will have issues. Why does their opinions matter?

Prodigy saved the world, the future and was magnificent back in the day. The problem is that it's more than spotlight. It's about people of color being portrayed as resilient human beings that move story. The X-men used to tell those stories across multiple books. They succeeded in making Bishop nearly A list and gave him more development in 5 years than they did Storm in 20. He had multiple mini series, 3 solos an entire world built around him. Storm hasn't even had that.

I think all black characters should shine but let's not ignore how marvel has treated it's black women. Spectrum was in limbo for years after chairing the avengers. Storm beat Wonder woman in a popularity contest and look at her now. Bling, Frenzy, CeCe Reyes, and so many other black women are being ignored right now. Spectrum or Storm aren't getting the push both characters deserve.

[DDM]

All I know is the world needs more Frenzy and Nekra.

[Sin Nick]

Because SOMEONE will take issue with that POC (not named Storm or X-23 or Psylocke or Jubliee or Monet) having a spotlight.

Umm... huh???

[rutog98]

I agree with the OP.

Why is this happening?

The writers and editors are extremely afraid of making a misstep with a POC. That’s basically it. And we don’t get any kind of exploration of them.

The debacle that is Storm, both in Gold and Resurrxtion, is the prime example.

I don't think that's it so much as they would rather have Jean and Cyclops as the center of the book and throw in Logan for the love triangle angle. Ever since sometime in the 90s comics have become a dying medium, from what many have said (including John Byrne). I think, in Storm's case in particular, that some writers are daunted by the idea of a POC becoming the heart of the book and overshadowing the white characters. In the 80s, Storm and Wolverine were the heart and soul of the X-Men title when the book was at its height. It did very well with sales as the readers gravitated to both characters. Heck, even after being scaled back for years when the lesser writer, Lobdell, came on board, Storm's popularity still eclipsed Wonder Woman's among comicbook fans.

While I don't believe all POC characters have the same potential as Ororo, what shocks me in with the maltreatment she's received in the book as her popularity was second only to Logan's with her only possible rival for second place being Gambit. Yet and still, Marvel scaled her back for Jean Grey and Cyclops, who were not as popular as Ororo in the 90s with fans. Its as if Marvel feels like they can force readers to like whichever character they want to push instead of giving us what we want...and that's why comics are a dying market. That means the ideals of the company do not align with the preferences of the readership. In scaling back Ororo for Scott and Jean, and making the lovebirds the center of the book, they put all of their eggs in one basket and it backfired on them. Marvel is just too dumb to accept it. I mean, just how many more rehashed stories are they going to try and force down our throats about a love triangle involving Jean/Scott/another character, or the Phoenix Force, or Jean's evil clone, or Cable's evil clone, or kids from the future and alternate timelines, and duplicates of those kids from alternate realities? Instead of breaking new ground with a POC like Ororo (they have barely scratched the surface regarding the potential stories that could be told around her character), they just want to rehash the same of Scott/Jean stuff from the late 70s/80s while every now and then giving Storm back a mohawk (which is dumb as when she first got it, it meant something, now its just stupid) or another worthless Morlock story (a well long run dry of any decent stories to tell).

End of rant!

[donpricetag]

All I know is the world needs more Frenzy and Nekra.

Frenzy... such a good, under-utilized DEEP character. A lot of people see AoX as the vehicle that started Magneto/Rogue (for that short period). I saw it as a Frenzy's birth. This character, a merc that fell in with Magneto because she believed in Mutant rights, freedom to the point of obession. That part of her was always there. But she's also an adrenaline junky. She craves action. Once the mutant population dropped she fell back to Utopia and sorta joined the X-Men, with nowhere else to go, but still very much had a meanstreak in her. AoX happens. She found herself fighting for mutant lives again, but from a defense standpoint. She was taking lives in the name of a cause. She was protecting life. In that, she found love. Frenzy discovered the other side of the coin and fell in love with that feeling of doing good for good's sake. Once it was all over, she was left heartbroken but decided to hold onto what she discovered in the AoX reality because it meant more to her than being love sick. Being the woman she'd become felt better than what she was prior. She became a protector and a teacher. She understood what the X-Men represented and chose to be that for the rest of her days. That kind of warrior is rare. It's on the level of Wolverine. A villain that believes what they are doing is right is just a powerful as a hero that believes what they need to protect is bigger than themselves.

[Midnight_v]

Frenzy... such a good, under-utilized DEEP character. A lot of people see AoX as the vehicle that started Magneto/Rogue (for that short period). I saw it as a Frenzy's birth. This character, a merc that fell in with Magneto because she believed in Mutant rights, freedom to the point of obession. That part of her was always there. But she's also an adrenaline junky. She craves action. Once the mutant population dropped she fell back to Utopia and sorta joined the X-Men, with nowhere else to go, but still very much had a meanstreak in her. AoX happens. She found herself fighting for mutant lives again, but from a defense standpoint. She was taking lives in the name of a cause. She was protecting life. In that, she found love. Frenzy discovered the other side of the coin and fell in love with that feeling of doing good for good's sake. Once it was all over, she was left heartbroken but decided to hold onto what she discovered in the AoX reality because it meant more to her than being love sick. Being the woman she'd become felt better than what she was prior. She became a protector and a teacher. She understood what the X-Men represented and chose to be that for the rest of her days. That kind of warrior is rare. It's on the level of Wolverine. A villain that believes what they are doing is right is just a powerful as a hero that believes what they need to protect is bigger than themselves.

"Yes. Yes. Her Contributions will never be forgotten... now toss her body over there with the others" - Phaage the untouchable
Kinda funny. kinda sad a this point. I actually did think highly of that character, but... since I really loved Basilisk and Frenzy... I felt the FALL OUT from that should have a way bigger deal.
But Scott is a made man, and frenzy is not, I guess.