The Minority Displacement Thread

[Silver Fang]

Apoc is a symbol of Racial Superiority. The fact people are arguing over his skin color is laughable.

Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao Zedong, Ghadaffi, Mugabe, Marcos....evil comes in all shapes, sizes, and colors.

Well this may not be the thread for you. It's a thread to discuss Minorities & their treatment in comics. It's easy for people who hate the topic to avoid. Unlike when the discussion takes over character threads.

And sure, evil comes in all shapes, sizes, and colors. But Apo was a brown skinned man who is now white, which has annoyed people since Marvel is a media that clearly has a bias toward black characters.

They're either treated like jokes, wallpaper, thrown into Limbo, or white-washed. Again, leaving the token black girl Storm. Though I guess it's progress they brought Bishop back from his character assassination for the sake of a white character's story. Unless they kill him off in Uncanny. lol Wouldn't put it passed Marvel to do.

[WhiteQueenEmmaFrost]

Well this may not be the thread for you. It's a thread to discuss Minorities & their treatment in comics. It's easy for people who hate the topic to avoid. Unlike when the discussion takes over character threads.

And sure, evil comes in all shapes, sizes, and colors. But Apo was a brown skinned man who is now white, which has annoyed people since Marvel is a media that clearly has a bias toward black characters.

They're either treated like jokes, wallpaper, thrown into Limbo, or white-washed. Again, leaving the token black girl Storm. Though I guess it's progress they brought Bishop back from his character assassination for the sake of a white character's story. Unless they kill him off in Uncanny. lol Wouldn't put it passed Marvel to do.

Bias is more than black and white. The binary argument is tired needs to evolve. Asian, Arab, Indian, First Nation People are ALL far more underrepresented. And the problem is that Marvel doesn't have diversity in it's leadership. Yelling at strangers on a message board isn't going to solve that.

46 pages of "this character is actually this color based on how the colorist decided for this run" really doesn't amount to much when there's no discussion about the characters or their portrayal. It's superficial fluff.

You could interpret that the image of Apoc was meant to regress him to a point before the division of race and if you read the actually issue he regresses even further into a violent primate more recognizable as animal than man. This could have lead to a discussion about how one of the most evil characters who represents some of the most racially superior minded men of our history is being taken back to a point where none of that ideology matters.

But instead it's a "he's this or that" because no one is bothering to read the words on the page.

[Triniking1234]

Apoc is a symbol of Racial Superiority. The fact people are arguing over his skin color is laughable.

Hitler, Pol Pot, Mao Zedong, Ghadaffi, Mugabe, Marcos....evil comes in all shapes, sizes, and colors.

Honestly I don't know what's up with trying to pass off that creature from X-Men Black as a "white man". It's creepy.

Where was this outrage when Uncanny X-Force came out and En Sabah Nur's clone, Evan, had Caucasian features.

[Silver Fang]

Bias is more than black and white. The binary argument is tired needs to evolve. Asian, Arab, Indian, First Nation People are ALL far more underrepresented. And the problem is that Marvel doesn't have diversity in it's leadership. Yelling at strangers on a message board isn't going to solve that.

And complaining at what strangers talk about on a message board won't change the topics to be had. You have been vocal you don't care for these types of discussion. But has that stopped them? No. So best to avoid what's easily avoidable and let the others have their discussion.

46 pages of "this character is actually this color based on how the colorist decided for this run" really doesn't amount to much when there's no discussion about the characters or their portrayal. It's superficial fluff.

It's seems superficial to someone who isn't in the minority. But it's showing of a very real issue. That black isn't appealing. For the longest, black has been at the bottom of the barrel as inferior. And when it does get attention, what happens? White-washing or in case of real-life, you get half white people or super light-skinned people to play black roles.

On the outside looking it, it seems like a lame complaint about color. But actually it's an expression with the displeasure at colorism and seemingly trying to erase black people from media.

As the saying goes, if you're white you're alright. If you're black, get back.

Even someone like Beyonce, who isn't a dark-skinned woman has received skin-lightening on magazine covers.
loreal_640.jpg
Why? Because anything darker than that artificial lightening is unappealing to white people. The colorism is real, and sometimes we do like being able to discuss & vent our frustrations at what is obvious bias. Especially when the higher ups preach about diversity and how important it is. Hire some more diverse people & stop whitening all the characters. lol

With black women, we're not allowed to be too dark, and they supposedly hate our full noses & lips. So the half-white narrow features girls what their version of what black ought to be. But Angelina Jolie's lips or Iggy's butt are worshiped. But when that stuff's on a black woman, it's unappealing.

And the only time you see a black woman with full features & natural hair is when he's a villain, or supposed to be comedic. Otherwise, if it's a heroine that's supposed to be attractive..you know the drill.

It's about seeing the other side. None of this applies to me, as I am a black woman with albinism. So you don't get whiter than me. But I can still see the very clear bias against darker people of color. It's sad when the 70's & 90's were more diverse than today. Look at some of the black women who modeled or even did porn in the those periods. Dark skin, natural hair, etc. And they were very popular in their day. Now look at today where it's all about half-white black girls with straight hair.

It's clear what the general media's game is. And it's gotten so obvious, it's just old at this point.

Like Homosexuality. On television media will try to appease the gay crowd by including lesbians. Why? Straight white men will find lesbians hot, so it's cool. But whenever gay men are depicted, they're used for comedy relief sand their gayness is something to be laughed at. You don't often see men being depicted in serious loving relationships with lots of affection & kissing the way you will when it's 2 women.

[WhiteQueenEmmaFrost]

And complaining at what strangers talk about on a message board won't change the topics to be had. You have been vocal you don't care for these types of discussion. But has that stopped them? No. So best to avoid what's easily avoidable and let the others have their discussion.

There's no discussion. Not over how a character acts, what they say, how they say it, or their involvement/non-involvement in storylines.

Art is inconsistent for ANY character and different people (of the same race) will see a different shade. This thread is boiled down to the Black/blue white/gold dress "discussion" about "ooo what do you see in this panel?" and then arguing about what one person sees and what the other one sees. That is entirely superficial no matter which way you cut it and is in direct opposition of what is trying to be accomplished with the purpose of the thread.

I'd actually like to see something done. I actually want there to be better representation and more diversity of the teams. If there was more inter-generational inclusion when a team is created there are more chances for more diversity because the later/younger groups had more diversity. Screw Kitty Pryde give the leadership to Dani Moonstar.

It's seems superficial to someone who isn't in the minority.

That's a bad assumption.

You just need to pay attention to know what's going on. You don't HAVE look a certain way.

[Tycon]

The fact people are arguing over his skin color is laughable.

Sir, I'd hate to inform you but this thread is called "Minority Displacement Thread." If you do not like the topics we discuss on race and skin color on the Minority Displacement Thread, I'd have nothing else to say but to actually listen to the POC who are calling out something that clearly discomforts us instead of complaining about the whole point of the thread.

[MYCMTSC]

Guys racism doesn't exist anymore! Discussion over.

Also, it is not just the colorists' decision:

https://thenib.com/lighten-up-4f7f96ca8a7e

[davetvs]

I wouldn't even bother responding to that user, they seem to get off on derailing or being purposely obtuse re: racial issues.

[butterflykyss]

Well this may not be the thread for you. It's a thread to discuss Minorities & their treatment in comics. It's easy for people who hate the topic to avoid. Unlike when the discussion takes over character threads.

And sure, evil comes in all shapes, sizes, and colors. But Apo was a brown skinned man who is now white, which has annoyed people since Marvel is a media that clearly has a bias toward black characters.

They're either treated like jokes, wallpaper, thrown into Limbo, or white-washed. Again, leaving the token black girl Storm. Though I guess it's progress they brought Bishop back from his character assassination for the sake of a white character's story. Unless they kill him off in Uncanny. lol Wouldn't put it passed Marvel to do.

I think you have to be a little more precise. it's not the marvel offices, its specifically the xoffices. on the avengers side the diversity is more of a thing there.

[butterflykyss]

Guys racism doesn't exist anymore! Discussion over.

Also, it is not just the colorists' decision:

https://thenib.com/lighten-up-4f7f96ca8a7e

this was a nice read thanks for sharing. very sad but shows how privilege plays into these popular books that read.

[WhiteQueenEmmaFrost]

Sir, I'd hate to inform you but this thread is called "Minority Displacement Thread." If you do not like the topics we discuss on race and skin color on the Minority Displacement Thread, I'd have nothing else to say but to actually listen to the POC who are calling out something that clearly discomforts us instead of complaining about the whole point of the thread.

Take your own advice and look at what you're actually saying compared to what you're trying to accomplish. You're debating what shade a neanderthal is and acting offended. You're getting yourself worked up over one issue and ignoring the ones with far greater implications. Instead of complaining on twitter about how a character didn't act the way you wanted them to one could use that voice and moment to voice how you want to see POC in leadership at Marvel.

I wouldn't even bother responding to that user, they seem to get off on derailing or being purposely obtuse re: racial issues.

By trying to get an ACTUAL conversation going about representation other than "what color does this look like to you?" and then lets get angry about it.

Maybe direct that anger where it belongs instead of someone who is actually trying to engage in an ACTUAL discussion. I've made plenty of other statements that could have lead to an intelligent and calm discussion and no one chooses to engage with those ideas. Instead you just pick apart what you want to argue about.

Yes how dare I try to engage in conversation with a serious idea. I don't know what I was thinking. You all clearly don't care about true change and only want to bitch & complain. It's toxic.

[BroHomo]

Who else wants to see more minority siblings in XBooks? Just at the top of my head only ones. I can think of are Proudstar Brothers, Bishop and Shard, Karma and her siblings the Bedlam Bros and the St Croix family. :/
Another thought just occurred to me....has there ever been minority siblings serving on an XTeam at the same time. I guess you could count Bishop and Shard but the fact that she was merely a hologram puts an unfortunate asterisk on the distinction

[Killerbee911]

By trying to get an ACTUAL conversation going about representation.

People have had actual conversation about representation with you and you ignore it. I have seen the comments she is Puerto Rican( a nationality/ethnicity) not Black (a race) when people explain to you that Black( means race from African decent) and not Black( Afro-american) you ignore it. One of the simplest things like Puerto Ricans, Brazilians, Dominicans,Cuban;They are people from all those nationalities who are Black( African decent) sometimes they understand Black to mean (Afro-american) and you will see people from everyone of those backgrounds go I am not Black (meaning Afro American). I have seen this explain to over and over in the thread and I will explain to you like I do to anyone who looks at me crazy when I say they are black. Your ancestors came over on a slave ship it stop on Cuba,Puerto Rico,or Brazil ,My ancestor came over on a slave ship they land on Jamaica, Virgins Islands,United States, etc. That is only difference is what Island or country you landed on and who brought you over. It is easiest baseline in this convo they are people with Latino/Hispanic background(ethnicity) who have African ancestry(Race).

All of this say the simplest thing in representation is getting how character looks like right. Bishop,Monet, Celia,Trinary,Black Panther can written and authentically to their ethnicity and culture but if they don't look like their character and suppose be from certain place where people look a certain way what is the point? You tell where character is from by how they look Bishop doesn't have to say one word in comic I know he is from African descent. You might want to gloss over it in visual medium the first thing you need to get right how something looks. It is not small thing it is biggest identifier of a character whose a minority. When Rock cast himself as John Henry it is big deal, When Zoe Salanda cast herself as Nina Simone it is a big deal, The fact Black Panther cast dark skin female actors is big deal. We can't begin to have a deeper convo on representation when they don't represent correctly the most basic thing. Whether Apocalypse and Blink is Black matters, The fact they keep lighten Monet and Sunspot matters. The fact they keep casting Bi racial light skin women as character from two black parents matter. It might not matter as much to you but not getting the simplest thing base right is annoying and why I am moving on to talk about things on a deep level when they can't get the simplest thing right.I mean

This guy

and This guy


Is suspose to be this guy


But that is not important we should be talking about importance of getting Welsh,Scottish and English accents right or something else apparently.

[Silver Fang]

@Killerbee911
BRAVO!!!! Great post! And touches on big issues with this topic. People don't know what race is, and try to factor in Religion, Nationality, and Ethnicity. Like someone saying she's not black, she Egyptian. That's not a race, and Hell ancient Egyptians were black. Didn't help their argument. lol

It happens all the time with characters & actors where you call them black, and people think that can't be the case because they aren't from Africa, or America. As if those are the only places with racially black people. Anderson Silva is a black Brazilian, but you got some people think you can't be both. So if he's Brazilian, he's not black.

Going on the comics. Deadpool's daughter Ellie is black. But she jumped around more than Monet when it came to her coloring.

She looked like this when she first appeared in Original Sin.

This is a black girl.

But because her mother was a Latina named Carmelita Camacho,

you'll have some saying Ellie is not supposed to be black. Again, you can be both because Latina isn't a race. It's an ethnicity that includes every kind of race there is.

But throughout volume 3, she got Monet's treatment of being lightened and race-changed.


Thankfully in volume four, they kept her black & brown at all times, and there was only ONE instant where they didn't.

But these discussions can be a headache when some are set in ignorant or inaccurate views and unwilling to understand the simply point you try to make. Such as Nationalities , Religions, and Ethnicities ARE NOT races.

Again, I have heard some argue that someone can't be black if they're Muslim. Or someone isn't black or white if they're Jewish. One has nothing to do with the other.

You mentioned Bishop. Clearly a black man, but someone wanna bring up "He's Australian." Sure he is. The aboriginals of Australia were Black Africans. Australia has since been colonized, but there's different races there. Everyone isn't one thing. So Bishop is a black man.

[Celestial]

I'm so glad that there are posters in here who can breakdown these explanations so well. The amount of times I've has to see people say Sunspots casting is accurate because Zaga is Brazilian is so annoying. Which is funny because Alice Braga isn't Puerto Rican and yet she's playing Cecila.