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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beetle View Post
    Flag on the play. Betsy's situation is in no way comparable to a trans person's experience. I don't care how many of Kwannon's memories she has, watching a person of color's life like a movie and feeling empathy is not the same as actually experiencing it for yourself.

    This is especially insulting considering the number of hoops and mental evaluations a trans person has to go through before sexual reassignment surgery, while Betsy was violated and surgically altered against her will.
    Thank you for posting this. Let's not start making false comparisons to human experiences that are different.

  2. #77
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaos Reigns View Post
    Aaron McGruder wrote that. He's great but wrong on this.
    thanks. if his greatness was based upon this writing it wouldnt amount to much. everytime someone posts that mess i want to gag.
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  3. #78
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    It's good that Sunspot isn't being drawn alabaster like, well, Zaga anymore, but he still looks like a white guy whose skin was darkened in post-production. He should be drawn with curly hair and black facial features. And he could be darkened further.

  4. #79
    Incredible Member dkrook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wano View Post
    This IS spot on! I do miss The Boondocks, the one written by Mc Gruder. Brother always brought the real.

  5. #80
    Astonishing Member Ulfhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaos Reigns View Post
    As fans we can change this. We can let our complaints be heard. We need to start but first a quick run through.

    Storm is a list, Marvel's answer to Wonder Woman. She has been displaced, minimized and silenced for over a decade by the X-office.

    Monet is now a mutant eating vampire.

    Synch, Bedlam and other black male characters are dead.

    Bishop is barely usable.

    Bling is freezing during battle while failing to live her dreams.

    That's just the black characters. Not one is shining right now, honestly all of them should be.

    Skin is still dead as are Feral and Thorn.

    Sunfire is in limbo, karma too, Sunpyre is dead. All the Asian mutants are completely invisible or gone with the only exception being Armor. She hasn't had any development in years.

    Let's talk about the native characters. Warpath is doing great but no one else is. Forge is wall paper and a stage 4 creeper, Dani is powerless and not being used.

    All of the POC characters are being mismanaged and abused. This thread is about pointing out how the X-office needs to do better empower characters that aren't white. No one is bashing characters for their skin color just pointing out the X-men are now doing a really bad job at portraying people of color when they were once the vanguards of it.
    I'd suggest that Marvel is doing a terrible job of empowering literally all their characters, let alone specific sub-groups. Who exactly is being written well by the X-Office at the moment in any X-Title?

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfhammer View Post
    I'd suggest that Marvel is doing a terrible job of empowering literally all their characters, let alone specific sub-groups. Who exactly is being written well by the X-Office at the moment in any X-Title?
    Old man logan and old woman Laura I guess

  7. #82
    Astonishing Member Silver Fang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfhammer View Post
    I'd suggest that Marvel is doing a terrible job of empowering literally all their characters, let alone specific sub-groups. Who exactly is being written well by the X-Office at the moment in any X-Title?
    Well we have the Mary Sue known as Old Man Logan,who seems to be & know the answer to everything, and keeps every single character in line as if he's always been around / in charge of them. And never does anything wrong, and nobody ever opposes him. Except Sabretooth, who gets treated like shit (by writers) for it.

    From what I hear, Kitty is doing fine in Gold. But I also hear that she's the only one who is.

    Rogue has been doing fine. Who knows if that'll continue in Gold.

    Duggan's Deadpool is also doing well, imo

    I think Bunn does a good Magneto
    Last edited by Silver Fang; 01-26-2018 at 04:30 PM.

  8. #83
    Jubilant Member Dementia5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfhammer View Post
    I'd suggest that Marvel is doing a terrible job of empowering literally all their characters, let alone specific sub-groups. Who exactly is being written well by the X-Office at the moment in any X-Title?
    Basically everything Silver Fang listed, plus Jubes, Chamber and Husk are all getting great treatment in GenX (for one more issue anyway).
    Quote Originally Posted by Fokken View Post
    Yer bonkers and you need a sandwich.

  9. #84
    Astonishing Member Ulfhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Fang View Post
    Well we have the Mary Sue known as Old Man Logan,who seems to be & know the answer to everything, and keeps every single character in line as if he's always been around / in charge of them. And never does anything wrong, and nobody ever opposes him. Except Sabretooth, who gets treated like shit (by writers) for it.

    From what I hear, Kitty is doing fine in Gold. But I also hear that she's the only one who is.

    Rogue has been doing fine. Who knows if that'll continue in Gold.

    Duggan's Deadpool is also doing well, imo

    I think Bunn does a good Magneto
    Kitty and OML characterization in Gold is not compelling in anyway IMO. Knowing and doing everything does not a good characterization make. Rogue has benefited from being mostly written well in non-X-books. Deadpool isn't really an X-Man as far as I'm concerned and he doesn't typically have an ongoing role in X-Books. Magneto is an anomaly but his character comes compelling right out of the box as I feel his character concept is much more compelling than most of the X-Men in general.

    But even if we agree to accept that these 5 have decent characterization at the moment, which I don't, that's 5 of 50+ X-Men who've regularly appeared in an ongoing X-Book. I think my original statement stands.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sundowhn View Post
    Incoming wall o' text.

    The inherent problem with that is that you're delving into different stories in different worlds -- the fictional world of the X-Men or the real world.

    In the X-Men's world, you don't see much in the way of stories about real world oppression on the news. They don't touch on Black Lives Matter, or Islamic Mosques being burned or gay kids being targeted with violence. For all we know, as things have been shown in recent years with people of all races banded together in hating on mutants, there is no longer significant human bias against human minorities. The bigotry is saved for mutants, in the X-Universe. If it's brought up at all, like a reference to concentration camps with Magneto, or Kitty's infamous N word dialogue from God Love, Man Kills, it's to draw a parallel to what mutants are going through. The reason for that is because mutants were created to be a fictional minority group and the X-Men are fictional members of that minority group who battle the unwarranted hate and fear directed at them. It's a metaphor.

    You have mutants who can choose to hide what they are that run parallel with real world minority groups based on religion or orientation, then you have mutants who cannot choose to hide what they are to parallel racial minorities.

    Now, before anyone gets angry with me, let me finish.

    I do think real world minority characters are underrepresented in the X-Men, as well as across the board in comics in general. I expect it's chiefly because of the era in which most of the characters were originally created and the fact that fans, especially of Marvel and DC, don't want to read about some new guy, they want to read about Thor or Iron Man or Wolverine or whatever. People interested in reading about the new guys tend to gravitate to Indie titles, which focus on new material, rather than classic.

    There are quite a few minority characters that exist across the X-Men line that haven't made the cut long-term, though. Probably the most diverse team ever created were the New Mutants, but only one of their number truly made it out of the kiddie class and into the Big League, and her hold is tenuous, at best, right now. (Magick)

    What we have are a handful of well developed minority characters, significantly more that were once developed but left to languish years ago, and the rest fall into tokenism.

    Four characters that I really love in the franchise happen to be minorities. I say "happen to be" because them being a minority isn't the specific reason I love the characters. I love the characters for being great characters.

    Storm and Bishop
    They're interesting, well-developed characters of color who are mutants. Bishop has suffered abysmally, story wise, but I hold out hope he'll one day find the right writer and be fixed. Lord knows he needs it. If ever Marvel was going to relaunch Excalibur, for example, Bishop would be a perfect choice for the by-the-book element in the original cast....the straight faced man as a backdrop for the humor associated with the title.

    Storm is tragically marginalized these days and I think it boils down to no writer having a clue as to how to write the character correctly. (Amusingly enough, I thought Jason Aaron, in the Quest for Nightcrawler arc did a pretty good job of capturing the substance of Storm and not relying on feats, as most writers seem to want to do with her.)

    The other two are more controversial, and open another portion of the subject at hand called "not my minority".

    Nightcrawler and Psylocke

    eth·nic·i·ty
    noun
    the fact or state of belonging to a social group that has a common national or cultural tradition.


    Nightcrawler is ethnically a gypsy from central Europe. If you've ever lived in central Europe, you're probably familiar with just how harshly this group is treated, as in they still have their camps burned down and are chased away from towns by the authorities . It's socially accepted bigotry, as I witnessed first hand when my youngest child was in kindergarten, in listening to her teacher talk.
    The character's heritage is overshadowed by the fact that he looks like a blue devil. Why not use his heritage more, like Claremont did?

    Psylocke was raised a white woman of privilege, but she's been in an Asian body for many years now. Does that completely discount her? It appears to, based on what I've read from other fans. I mean, I'm not defending the original story line or anything, but she is actually a race other than white, and she's also bisexual. Again, neither are addressed, overly much. Why not?

    This is where we get into the territory of not my minority group. Is there really a right or a wrong answer to this? Isn't diversity about inclusion of all groups? Why discount those minority groups that don't represent what you're personally interested in? I see it happen all the time.

    The final thing is this, in response to what to do about it. In my opinion, if you scream and demand diversity, the response is an uptick on token appearances, or at least that's what I've seen so far. Why was Iceman written to be gay? Because Bendis needed a token minority in his classically all white O5 group, after such an outcry over lack of diversity in the line-up. That's what I believe, anyway. With as little as Storm has done in Gold, she seems more like a token black character on the cast, rather than an A-list X-Man. I'm sorry, but that's not good enough.

    In X-Men Red, three of the cast are a part of real life minority groups. Instead of people being excited on these boards for the book, I see them bashing the cast and whining about it. (Now if this ends up as another team book that is written like a solo with supporting, I'll probably join the whining. )

    Maybe instead of complaining to Marvel and demanding more characters who'll just end up in limbo, it would be better to say we'd really like the ones we have to be used and a significant part of the franchise once more? Make them great characters again, don't just make more lackluster characters.

    That's my 2 cents on it.
    Well I think the Sam Wilson Captain America title did a great job of showing real world issues in its pages. With the whole americops storyline and what happened to Rage, that was a great example of bringing real world issues into the fictional world of comics.The X-Men's whole foundation is built on the "mutant metaphor", as stand-ins for minorities but all the focus is on white male and female characters. And the minority X-characters are woefully undeserved or all together sidelined. I just can't get behind Cyclops, Emma, Iceman, Polaris or any other regular looking white mutant crying about bigotry or discrimination when no one would even know they were a mutant if did not use their powers in public. Marvel(specifically the X-office) really needs to rectify their minority problem, the other marvel titles while not perfect has got them beat by a mile.

  11. #86
    Incredible Member ButterRum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfhammer View Post
    I'd suggest that Marvel is doing a terrible job of empowering literally all their characters, let alone specific sub-groups. Who exactly is being written well by the X-Office at the moment in any X-Title?
    The X-Men have been written poorly for nearly a decade though!!!!!!!!!!

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    Well I think the Sam Wilson Captain America title did a great job of showing real world issues in its pages. With the whole americops storyline and what happened to Rage, that was a great example of bringing real world issues into the fictional world of comics.The X-Men's whole foundation is built on the "mutant metaphor", as stand-ins for minorities but all the focus is on white male and female characters. And the minority X-characters are woefully undeserved or all together sidelined. I just can't get behind Cyclops, Emma, Iceman, Polaris or any other regular looking white mutant crying about bigotry or discrimination when no one would even know they were a mutant if did not use their powers in public. Marvel(specifically the X-office) really needs to rectify their minority problem, the other marvel titles while not perfect has got them beat by a mile.
    No lies here.
    Quote Originally Posted by ButterRum View Post
    The X-Men have been written poorly for nearly a decade though!!!!!!!!!!
    True as that may be the minority characters have been treated worse.

  13. #88
    Mighty Member Sundowhn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The tall man View Post
    Well I think the Sam Wilson Captain America title did a great job of showing real world issues in its pages. With the whole americops storyline and what happened to Rage, that was a great example of bringing real world issues into the fictional world of comics.The X-Men's whole foundation is built on the "mutant metaphor", as stand-ins for minorities but all the focus is on white male and female characters. And the minority X-characters are woefully undeserved or all together sidelined. I just can't get behind Cyclops, Emma, Iceman, Polaris or any other regular looking white mutant crying about bigotry or discrimination when no one would even know they were a mutant if did not use their powers in public. Marvel(specifically the X-office) really needs to rectify their minority problem, the other marvel titles while not perfect has got them beat by a mile.
    Which is exactly why the O5 failed and ANAD took off, imo.

  14. #89
    Ultimate Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sundowhn View Post
    Which is exactly why the O5 failed and ANAD took off, imo.
    The only person in that group that would qualify was Nightcrawler

  15. #90
    Mighty Member Sundowhn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    The only person in that group that would qualify was Nightcrawler
    Storm stands out a bit, as well, I'd say, or at least the way she was drawn back in the day.

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