Green arrow workshop thread

[CRaymond]

Get rid of Seattle and the politics. Otherwise that's a good list.

Your tastes are SO weird. I figured the fired-up politics is character-defining trait.

Is Star City a stand-in for Seattle?

[CaptCleghorn]

Is Star City a stand-in for Seattle?

I've thought that, but I recall other cities being mentioned as well. Mike Grell's more realistic GA series used Seattle probably to increase the idea of a realistic story.

[Trey Strain]

Your tastes are SO weird. I figured the fired-up politics is character-defining trait.

Is Star City a stand-in for Seattle?

My tastes are not even remotely "weird."

I don't think politics sells comics. There was a thread in the Marvel forum where that was argued, and nobody was able to make a list of the times it's ever happened, because it never has. On the Grammys last night, they trotted Hillary out to mock Trump. Whatever you think about Hillary and Trump, and I certainly don't want to get into that, I guarantee you that the ratings for the Grammys will go down next year. It's just not smart, no matter how passionate anyone feels about their side of an argument. You can show Ollie fighting for the downtrodden without having him spout off about politics. Nobody reads a comic to get harangued that way.

And I prefer fictional cities to real ones in comics. That's not "weird" either. Let Marvel have New York City, and give me DC's fictional cities. Besides, Green Arrow is selling so poorly, it's obvious that Seattle residents aren't excitedly running out to buy Ollie's comic because he's supposedly their home boy.

[BaneBreaker]

Are we talking the show or the comic? It seems to be bouncing between the two.

I wouldn't mind seeing something akin to when Grell was working on GA. As for Star v Seattle, I guess I lean more towards Star City because I like the way it sounds but Seattle is fine by me too.

[CRaymond]

Well that was a lot.

Sorry, weird was the wrong word. Idiosyncratic is probably the right one.

I'm a big fan of fictional cities too. I've been imagining Star City as Nashville or Memphis actually.

[BaneBreaker]

My tastes are not even remotely "weird."

I don't think politics sells comics. There was a thread in the Marvel forum where that was argued, and nobody was able to make a list of the times it's ever happened, because it never has. On the Grammys last night, they trotted Hillary out to mock Trump. Whatever you think about Hillary and Trump, and I certainly don't want to get into that, I guarantee you that the ratings for the Grammys will go down next year. It's just not smart, no matter how passionate anyone feels about their side of an argument. You can show Ollie fighting for the downtrodden without having him spout off about politics. Nobody reads a comic to get harangued that way.

And I prefer fictional cities to real ones in comics. That's not "weird" either. Let Marvel have New York City, and give me DC's fictional cities. Besides, Green Arrow is selling so poorly, it's obvious that Seattle residents aren't excitedly running out to buy Ollie's comic because he's supposedly their home boy.

1938 til last Wednesday. Politics have always been there. Both subtly and over the top.

[Trey Strain]

Well that was a lot.

Sorry, weird was the wrong word. Idiosyncratic is probably the right one.

I'm a big fan of fictional cities too. I've been imagining Star City as Nashville or Memphis actually.

Most of the time, what I want is something that will sell more comics. Nothing more complicated than that.

[CRaymond]

Nothing more complicated than that.

Then I'll handle the complicated stuff.

I think some of DC's properties should transitioned into different mediums. MMORPG in Gotham City, FPS Superman in space. ETC. Let the books move onto new, smaller ideas.

[Uncanny Mutie]

I'm sad to see Green Arrow's monthly numbers so low and for this question to even have to be asked. As a longtime Green Arrow fan, I actually LOVE Percy's Rebirth run. I think it's been a great balance of the good, classic elements of GA that worked in years past and current, modern elements. It's been one of the best books in Rebirth to me (along with Deathstroke and Aquaman).

I just think the thing about Green Arrow is that in modern times, a hero with an archaic weapon/schtick like a bow and arrow in a blatant Robin Hood inspired (rip-offed) costume is not going to appeal to or draw in many people who aren't already dedicated fans of the character to begin with, especially with consumers who skew younger.

The reason the CW show gets away with it is because, as people always point out, it rips off Batman so much, and also because you can do things with powerless street level characters in live action to make them seem cool that you just can't do as well or translate as well just from drawing it on a page. Especially when it comes to something like a bow and arrows. And even on the CW show, they seem to have realized this, because they did little things like call him and the show "Arrow" instead of GREEN Arrow, started off giving him dark face paint around the eyes instead of the classic (and outdated) domino mask, and gave him that young hipster "face scruff" type of stubble instead of the classic (again, outdated) Van Dyke beard or even a goatee. They even darkened up his costume to the point where it's almost black and made it look more militarized or stealthy (practical) than Robin Hood-ish or even super hero-ish.

Those things may sound minor, but they went a long way in helping Green Arrow translate better to live action and to reel in people who would NEVER have gravitated toward Green Arrow in comic book form. That, I think, is the biggest difference, and why the show succeeds but the comic always seems to fail, even when it has a great creative team on it.

[Trey Strain]

This is why injecting politics into entertainment is a bad idea.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...=.9c03fcd0d37d

[K. Jones]

Man, I guess I can come up with some ideas, but combine the Lemire run on Green Arrow with all the stuff Percy has done and I'm pretty happy with Green Arrow right now - in particular post-Rebirth. They've taken so much of the TV show but made it fit in the comics more, they've restored Roy's origin story on the reservation and made it really relevant. The Ninth Circle has been a pretty great recurring baddie group that can spawn cooler individual enemies but gives us a constant Dante-themed henchmen/evil headquarters cool themed thing that plays really nice with the political angles. The real world allegories are simple, on the nose, and aren't that deep, but they play really well with revitalizing the Hero of the People/Robin Hood Ollie we know and love.

The supporting cast is strong. The art is usually pretty creative. And the pacing is quick and to the point. Could better stories be told in this playground? Yeah, sure. But there's just the right mix of Golden Age Ollie weirdness, O'Neil and Grell style homage, CW-verse style characters & soap operatics homage, Roy's post-sidekick-era homages, using the Rock & Roll/Punk Band Black Canary, and a dash of Animated Series, that makes it feel right. And all those different takes on Ollie really live together in the same book very effortlessly and naturally.

Not sure where I'd go or what I'd do different. Probably bring back a little bit of the Lemire Outsiders stuff and have it clash against the Ninth Circle. Do more stuff with the less-secret-society rogues like Vertigo. Maybe do a bat-crossover with Merlyn and Damian and Roy and Dick and Cheshire and the League of Assassins relationship. Maybe do a story arc where Dinah's punk band or some of her punk kung-fu stuff from the Fletcher-verse run comes into play.

[Chubistian]

1938 til last Wednesday. Politics have always been there. Both subtly and over the top.

Besides this being right

Dark Knight Returns
Watchmen
V for Vendetta
Green Lantern/Green Arrow
Vision
Chris Claremont’s Uncanny X-Men
And a long etc.

Politics can sell just fine, subtly or not

[CRaymond]

I think you’re reaching.

The Music Industry has always been broken, and the Internet has only made is worse. An awards program to celebrate an art form that’s losing its identity to a business never had a soul is hardly worth any attention. It’s evolving as more and more tribal fragment communities and THEIR awards programs, but the Grammies Academy itself isn’t evolving.

[ed2962]

My tastes are not even remotely "weird."

I don't think politics sells comics. There was a thread in the Marvel forum where that was argued, and nobody was able to make a list of the times it's ever happened, because it never has. On the Grammys last night, they trotted Hillary out to mock Trump. Whatever you think about Hillary and Trump, and I certainly don't want to get into that, I guarantee you that the ratings for the Grammys will go down next year. It's just not smart, no matter how passionate anyone feels about their side of an argument. You can show Ollie fighting for the downtrodden without having him spout off about politics. Nobody reads a comic to get harangued that way.

And I prefer fictional cities to real ones in comics. That's not "weird" either. Let Marvel have New York City, and give me DC's fictional cities. Besides, Green Arrow is selling so poorly, it's obvious that Seattle residents aren't excitedly running out to buy Ollie's comic because he's supposedly their home boy.

This is simply not true. Several people gave you examples, you just choose not to acknowledge them.

[ed2962]

I think you’re reaching.

The Music Industry has always been broken, and the Internet has only made is worse. An awards program to celebrate an art form that’s losing its identity to a business never had a soul is hardly worth any attention. It’s evolving as more and more tribal fragment communities and THEIR awards programs, but the Grammies Academy itself isn’t evolving.

Exactly, the Grammy have been becoming less relevant with each passing year for at least the last decade.