Mary Jane should stop being Peter's "Iconic" Main Love Interest

[Kevinroc]

Yup, those movies. Well, them coupled with the fact Spider-Gwen is huge with the general public right now. I don't see half heck even a quarter as many people cosplaying MJ, dressing up as her for Halloween, writing fanfiction about her being paired with Peter or buying her merch (which barely exists as is) as I do Spider-Gwen. If I was in charge of Marvel or better yet on the board of Disney, and the company okayed giving Peter a long-term love interest again, it would be a no-brainer for me to pick a version of Gwen over MJ. Such a pick would make the most sense from a marketability standpoint.

Spider-Gwen is a spin-off, not a supporting character.

[Celgress]

Spider-Gwen is a spin-off, not a supporting character.

And 616 MJ is currently classified, at least technically, as an Ironman character. In any case, I stand by my earlier message. However, I do not want to derail this thread so I'll say no more on the subject of PeterxGwen.

[WebLurker]

Is MJ the iconic love interest of the franchise? Yes, I don't think that up for debate. Will that ever change? I will concede that in theory it could, given enough time. However, see as we're a decade removed from OMD and it's still a point of contention (not to mention that other non-ASM series and other media) have been using the character a lot, I don't think that it's going to happen any time soon. Anecdotally, I've found that people with only a passing familiarity with Spider-Man generally know who MJ is and peg her as Spidey's significant other, while other girlfriend characters are rarely recognized (even Gwen Stacy gets less name recognition than MJ -- and I'm talking in a post-Emma Stone Gwen world here).

I can only speak for myself, but, while I don't think MJ needs to be a major part of every since Spider-Man story (nor should adaptations be limited to just her as the love interest), I find the character is an essential piece of the fabric of the franchise, if that makes any sense. So, while I wouldn't demand that she be a constant co-star, I find that having her and Peter either being married or going steady is kind of an important thing to have in play and stuff where that is not in the cards reads as "un-normal." Seeing as the original movies and Ultimate comics were my intro and gateway to the franchise, I think that I can be forgiven for finding the Peter/MJ relationship to be as essential to the mythos as the power set, costume, origin story, everyman status, etc. Mileage will vary.

[anyajenkins]

Marvel can't make anything 'iconic' or make something that's 'iconic' 'not iconic'. If they could do that, they would have already and probably have over used that power... Iconic doesn't depend only on what comics are doing at the time, it depends other things including outside media and the general public reaction to it. Cosplayers are not the general public ( and MJ doesn't have a costume, so not to many cosplayers...) MJ has also been in more movies, cartoons, games, etc... Marvel can't get rid of any of that. I'm also not sure how Spider-Man having a 'hot wife' is unrelateable, but him having a series of hot girlfriends somehow isn't.

[comicscollector]

Agreed,the marriage years are over hyped nostalgia at the best imo.
This idea that without Mary Jane in the stories the stories can not be good is just silly to me.And is something that is disproven by hundreds of stories that did not have that Status Quo.
Something that makes about zero sense to me because generally speaking the best stories of Spider-Man can be found before Amazing Spider-Man Annual:21 and not after.
So having said that,Mary Jane have not been Peter Parker main love interest but i much rather read new stories of Peter Parker and Bobbi Morse or Felicia that i would like to read new stories with Mary Jane as the main romantic interest again.(Something that was writen in the stories for twenty years anyways)

[Celgress]

Agreed,the marriage years are over hyped nostalgia at the best imo.
This idea that without Mary Jane in the stories the stories can not be good is just silly to me.And is something that is disproven by hundreds of stories that did not have that Status Quo.
Something that makes about zero sense to me because generally speaking the best stories of Spider-Man can be found before Amazing Spider-Man Annual:21 and not after.
So having said that,Mary Jane have not been Peter Parker main love interest but i much rather read new stories of Peter Parker and Bobbi Morse or Felicia that i would like to read new stories with Mary Jane as the main romantic interest again.(Something that was writen in the stories for twenty years anyways)

I agree (well other than Bobbi because I hate the relationship between her and Peter) 616 Mary Jane doesn't add much if anything to the Spider-Man narrative. Now that the damsel in distress trope is more out of fashion than ever I see no future need for her in the stories. Felicia, Spider-Gwen (modified), or Bobbi (sigh) would all be a much more appropriate love interest for Peter moving forward given audience expectations of a strong, capabale, independent woman in comic books and related media than would MJ. Furthermore, MJ's career as a model/actress just doesn't sync up with Spidey's world of crimefighting in any meaningful way, unlike say Los Lane's career as a reporter does with Superman's world. I'm not saying I hate the character, just that I think frankly there is no way to fit her back into the role of primary love interest ten years after the fact without serious modification of her traits and role, the world has changed so greatly it just wouldn't work otherwise.

[Lukmendes]

I agree (well other than Bobbi because I hate the relationship between her and Peter) 616 Mary Jane doesn't add much if anything to the Spider-Man narrative. Now that the damsel in distress trope is more out of fashion than ever I see no future need for her in the stories. Felicia, Spider-Gwen (modified), or Bobbi (sigh) would all be a much more appropriate love interest for Peter moving forward given audience expectations of a strong, capabale, independent woman in comic books and related media than would MJ.

MJ was hardly ever a damsel in distress in 616, so I fail to see how she's not "strong, capable, independent" lol.

Furthermore, MJ's career as a model/actress just doesn't sync up with Spidey's world of crimefighting in any meaningful way, unlike say Los Lane's career as a reporter does with Superman's world. I'm not saying I hate the character, just that I think frankly there is no way to fit her back into the role of primary love interest ten years after the fact without serious modification of her traits and role, the world has changed so greatly it just wouldn't work otherwise.

And why does her life needs to fit in his crime fighting life? Spider-Man is also about Peter's life, outside of the costume, it's why a relationships with normal women worked for Spidey to begin with, they're one of the elements of his normal life, and considering that post OMD MJ doesn't feel like MJ to begin with, similarly to Queenpin, I doubt how bringing her back to pre-OMD would be a problem regardless of how long she had that bad characterization.

[comicscollector]

I agree (well other than Bobbi because I hate the relationship between her and Peter) 616 Mary Jane doesn't add much if anything to the Spider-Man narrative. Now that the damsel in distress trope is more out of fashion than ever I see no future need for her in the stories. Felicia, Spider-Gwen (modified), or Bobbi (sigh) would all be a much more appropriate love interest for Peter moving forward given audience expectations of a strong, capabale, independent woman in comic books and related media than would MJ. Furthermore, MJ's career as a model/actress just doesn't sync up with Spidey's world of crimefighting in any meaningful way, unlike say Los Lane's career as a reporter does with Superman's world. I'm not saying I hate the character, just that I think frankly there is no way to fit her back into the role of primary love interest ten years after the fact without serious modification of her traits and role, the world has changed so greatly it just wouldn't work otherwise.

Good points.
I don´t hate Mary Jane or even the stories featuring Peter and MJ married,i was collecting Spider-Man comics during that time as well.
But i started Reading Spider-Man comics before Peter and Mary Jane married in the stories and have arrived to the conclusion that what makes me keep on Reading is not guessing how will be the next story and in that sense a Single status quo or having Peter Parker in a commited relationship with say Felicia is more interesting that the stories reseting now to the Staus Quo of Peter and Mary Jane married again in the stories.
Something that goes way back to the first Spider-Man stories,i mean in the first stories, Peter Parker was considerating proposing to Betty Brant and see how the stories went in diferent directions in regards of the soap opera aspect of the Spider-Man stories.
I just think that 20 years was a respectfully amount of time to have stories with Peter and Mary Jane married but curently stories should take advantage of the single status quo and move in even more original stories directions.

[Mister Mets]

Whether something is iconic isn't really determined by Marvel, but how the fans respond, so this is much easier said than done.

[LASERlips]

Yup, those movies. Well, them coupled with the fact Spider-Gwen is huge with the general public right now. I don't see half heck even a quarter as many people cosplaying MJ, dressing up as her for Halloween, writing fanfiction about her being paired with Peter or buying her merch (which barely exists as is) as I do Spider-Gwen. If I was in charge of Marvel or better yet on the board of Disney, and the company okayed giving Peter a long-term love interest again, it would be a no-brainer for me to pick a version of Gwen over MJ. Such a pick would make the most sense from a marketability standpoint.

This argument is a bit disingenuous. First, Spider-Gwen is not the same character that was coupled with Peter Parker, and unless she ages up, or he de-ages, she never will be in the comics.

Second, people dress as her because she's a superhero with a cool costume. MJ wears normal clothes. It's hard to dress up as MJ. Spider-Gwen having a cool costume that people like to wear does not somehow make Gwen Stacy the preferred iconic pairing with Spider-Man.

I agree (well other than Bobbi because I hate the relationship between her and Peter) 616 Mary Jane doesn't add much if anything to the Spider-Man narrative. Now that the damsel in distress trope is more out of fashion than ever I see no future need for her in the stories. Felicia, Spider-Gwen (modified), or Bobbi (sigh) would all be a much more appropriate love interest for Peter moving forward given audience expectations of a strong, capabale, independent woman in comic books and related media than would MJ. Furthermore, MJ's career as a model/actress just doesn't sync up with Spidey's world of crimefighting in any meaningful way, unlike say Los Lane's career as a reporter does with Superman's world. I'm not saying I hate the character, just that I think frankly there is no way to fit her back into the role of primary love interest ten years after the fact without serious modification of her traits and role, the world has changed so greatly it just wouldn't work otherwise.

MJ has always been strong, capable, and independent. I don't see what you're getting at by declaring otherwise.

Gwen Stacy was the ultimate damsel in distress, in the end.

[Miles To Go]

I agree (well other than Bobbi because I hate the relationship between her and Peter) 616 Mary Jane doesn't add much if anything to the Spider-Man narrative

Wrong. Very wrong. Her position under Bendis gave her a plethora of storytelling potential with the Parker Industries version of Peter, all of which Slott squandered in order to keep them at a distance.

No offense, but the whole of your last post indicates you don't have the faintest clue about Mary Jane, why she continues to stand the test of time, and you also seem willfully ignorant of all the instances she has evolved both outside of 616 and within it.

Such a pick would make the most sense from a marketability standpoint.

Superman and Wonder Woman are still aggressively marketed by DC despite the fact DC abandoned that pairing in the comics almost three years ago...but that doesn't mean Diana is the right match for Clark. They know who Clark's most iconic and most interesting love interest is. From a marketing standpoint, MJ is very much in the same boat (and it helps that she has a Lois-like role in cartoons like Ultimate Spider-Man and the new video game)

Even if you did get your way, it's too little, too late. Thanks to Renew Your Vows, MJ's already got the super hero partner gig with Peter down to an exact science. Spider-Gwen's role with Peter in a romantic capacity would be pretty redundant and a step backwards (what with no kid and all), just as RYV is currently making Peter and Bobbi look like it's trailing behind

[Green Goblin of Sector 2814]

Marvel can't make anything 'iconic' or make something that's 'iconic' 'not iconic'. If they could do that, they would have already and probably have over used that power... Iconic doesn't depend only on what comics are doing at the time, it depends other things including outside media and the general public reaction to it. Cosplayers are not the general public ( and MJ doesn't have a costume, so not to many cosplayers...) MJ has also been in more movies, cartoons, games, etc... Marvel can't get rid of any of that. I'm also not sure how Spider-Man having a 'hot wife' is unrelateable, but him having a series of hot girlfriends somehow isn't.

Boom. Exactly!

[Dolores - The Worst Poster Ever]

Keep in mind that I haven't read a lot of Spider-Man compared to most of you, and I wouldn't call myself a Spider-Man fan. My knowledge of Spider-Man isn't much.

The thing I found that set the Peter Parker/Mary Jane romance apart from other comic book romances was that Mary Jane wasn't created to be Peter Parker's one true love, or to be the "main love interest". She wasn't even the first romantic partner Peter Parker had if I remember right, or the first person he was shown attracted to. She wasn't introduced as the person Peter Parker was going to eventually marry or whatever, unlike the likes of Lois Lane, Joan Williams, Carol Ferris, Iris West, etc.

This made her feel like an actual inhabitant of the Marvel Universe, someone that lived in it and was appearing in the Spider-Man books, as opposed to this extension of Peter Parker himself, like Gwen Stacey who felt less like her own character and someone that existed for Peter Parker.

The eventual romance and marriage between Peter and Mary Jane was this repudiation of the one true love, destined love, etc, approach that superhero comics had for long term relationships. It wasn't a relationship that was planned from the inception of these characters, it just sort of happened. It felt so much less manufactured than what was usually present in superhero comics. So as someone that isn't fond of when characters are created to be "the girlfriend" or "the wife", I had more positive impression of Peter/Mary Jane than I did other superhero romances.

Because of that, making her the main love interest, as in the endgame romantic relationship as it were, not just in the 616 continuity but across media, like the Raimi movies, I view as a disservice to the character and playing into very tropes she defied. Rather I think the better approach is that she's someone that could be in a relationship with Peter Parker, that relationship could be a permanent one or she might appear and never date him at all. When she's to appear in Spider-Man stories, it shouldn't be a sure thing that she will end up in a relationship with Peter.

But as I said, keep in mind that I'm not a Spider-Man fan.

[Miles To Go]

Because of that, making her the main love interest, as in the endgame romantic relationship as it were, not just in the 616 continuity but across media, like the Raimi movies, I view as a disservice to the character and playing into very tropes she defied.

Not really, MJ being the endgame relationship defines much of her own evolved tropes and traits (the best friend and confidante who will stick by Peter no matter what while living life on their terms) as well as Peter's (his ultimate sense of responsibility), and the ultimate test of her own character to not become her own father or sister, i.e another tragedy.

[Dolores - The Worst Poster Ever]

Not really, MJ being the endgame relationship defines much of her own evolved tropes and traits (the best friend and confidante who will stick by Peter no matter what while living life on their terms) as well as Peter's (his ultimate sense of responsibility), and the ultimate test of her own character to not become her own father or sister, i.e another tragedy.

It sounds like she's less her own character than I believed.

How disappointing.