Is there anything that disqualifies someone from being a Superman fan?

[Last Son]

I don't know if I'd say there's much that can actually disqualify someone as being a Superman fan(although only being a fan of the Injustice version comes close), but I don't know how I feel about fans who only got into the character after the New 52 and Man of Steel and are the same people who were saying he was corny, overpowered, outdated, unoriginal, only a few years ago and have responded with revulsion over the pre-Flashpoint Superman coming back. It just seems disrespectful, but they still have the right to call themselves fans, I guess.

[Sacred Knight]

All there is to say about fans who got into the character with the New 52 and Man of Steel is that they found a version of the character that was to their liking. As neither version is vastly of bounds to the concept, and was clearly recognizable as Superman, I don't and never will see the mystery. its simply just one of the many versions of the character that has existed for this past near-century, and there were a group of folks that gravitated toward it. There's nothing disrespectful about preferring certain versions over others. Hell many fans who like these versions of Superman are not either/or in the first place, many are like myself, who have liked and still do like multiple versions. But some are, and that's fine too.

Obviously there's a limit to the changes one can make and still be able to call an iteration "Superman". You can't point to Detective Chimp and say that's Superman. But we understand that. The reality is the berth pretty wide, however. Just a few basic beats need to be met. And DC/WB has never even come close to crossing that line outside of intentional concepts (Ultraman, Injustice, etc).

[Last Son]

I guess I don't get why they hated the character so much before those versions. I mean, i know not all of the people who got into Superman through MoS and New 52 necessarily hated the character, but I know there are people who did and it seems kind of hypocritical, or there was some very superficial change of these newer iterations that suddenly made the character cool to them (like the lack of trunks).

[Kuwagaton]

What Fundamentals? It seems every time someone tries to define something as fundamental we get a "how dare you exclude people who aren't into that aspect from being a fan"

... to make it easy, you can just exclude the stuff you made up for the sake of your post, that you don't see a likelihood of DC endorsing.

[Jon Clark]

... to make it easy, you can just exclude the stuff you made up for the sake of your post, that you don't see a likelihood of DC endorsing.

With one exception everything in my post was based on a post of someone's opinion about how they saw Superman. So I still have no idea just what these essenitals are since almost everyone on this board seems unable to list something concrete that we can agree is out of bounds for Superman.

And as for DC's endorsement- they are a money-making enterprise. If tomorrow they thought they'd make more money with Superman as a genocidal Bat-for, they'd do it in a second.

[Kuwagaton]

*shrug*

The thing about the internet is that there's so much... amusement, I guess, to be found in being hyperbolic that it's possible to lose track of what is an exaggeration. Many people do believe he belongs with only Lois, and some people are very adamant about the trunks or lack of them. Those viewpoints are rooted in the comics lore and supported verbatim by people who are indeed passionate about the property. The other stuff, not so much. It's not a working example if it doesn't match reality.

As for DC, it's easy to forget that there are people behind these corporations. Fans and people with an interest in a lucrative long-game. They (the people in positions of authority, in and out of the offices through the years) won't do "literally anything" for sales and in fact stopped some pretty well known creators from making certain tweaks, for the interest of the property.

[stephens2177]

Can we all agree on this as fundamental?

[dancj]

I would say that the early Golden Age Superman was a badass in terms of both attitude and power level relative to what he was up against.

I would definitely not call the SA Superman a badass in terms of attitude but definitely in terms of power.

I can agree with that.

Well, it all boils down to how you define the term.

I think badass can mean a lot of different things. In Clark's case, he's a badass because of his supreme confidence and skill level, his ability to remain cool under universe-burning fire, and his refusal to bend to anyone else's will or public perception. He's the most capable person on earth, and not just because of his raw power, but because of his intellect and his ability to read a situation and pull the right thing to do out of it. He doesnt care if you like him or if you agree with him, he's going to do what he feels is right, no matter what, no matter what kind of consequences he might face for it. It takes a lot of balls to remain steady under that kind of pressure, and Clark never blinks. He stands his ground and you're not even gonna budge him, physically, mentally, philosophically....the dude is a stone so large god himself couldn't budge it. That's pretty badass in my opinion.

I guess. You put forward a good case.

It's just the term "badass" tends to conjure up images of characters like Batman, Wolverine, The Punisher, Darth Vader, Lobo, Darkseid etc, and Superman doesn't really fit in with that crowd.

[Atomic Man]

To be more accurate: you can indeed think you are a "Superman fan," but if you're really a fan of caricatures/deconstructionist imitations of the character (Hobo of Steel, Injustice, Miller's TDKRverse) then you are a fan of what you'd rather Superman was instead of what he truly is as a character.

Read the quote in my sig for further elaboration.

[marhawkman]

It's just the term "badass" tends to conjure up images of characters like Batman, Wolverine, The Punisher, Darth Vader, Lobo, Darkseid etc, and Superman doesn't really fit in with that crowd.

What? Kal-El has punched Hahn-Sho Lobo a whole lot of times!

[Ascended]

I guess. You put forward a good case.

It's just the term "badass" tends to conjure up images of characters like Batman, Wolverine, The Punisher, Darth Vader, Lobo, Darkseid etc, and Superman doesn't really fit in with that crowd.

Indeed, those are the characters who come to mind when you hear the term, but I think it can carry a wider meaning than just some testosterone-dripping alpha-wannabe who likes to growl and make intimidating one-liners in order to hide the mountain of personal issues they've never gotten over.

[Ascended]

To be more accurate: you can indeed think you are a "Superman fan," but if you're really a fan of caricatures/deconstructionist imitations of the character (Hobo of Steel, Injustice, Miller's TDKRverse) then you are a fan of what you'd rather Superman was instead of what he truly is as a character.

Read the quote in my sig for further elaboration.

You are of course welcome to your opinion.

But there are die-hard fans here who know the character inside and out who prove your "theory" is very, very wrong.

[Pohzee]

Very gatekeepy. Anyone who considers themself to be a Superman fan is a Superman fan.

That being said... Anybody who is against the glorious outside underwear.

[BBally]

To be more accurate: you can indeed think you are a "Superman fan," but if you're really a fan of caricatures/deconstructionist imitations of the character (Hobo of Steel, Injustice, Miller's TDKRverse) then you are a fan of what you'd rather Superman was instead of what he truly is as a character.

Read the quote in my sig for further elaboration.

I take it you haven't read DK3 (don't blame you especially after the DK2 debacle), because that book seems to be a huge apology to Superman fans especially during the climax where Batman's like "wow, Clark is way more awesome than me"

I enjoyed Man Of Steel (Hobo Of Steel is never going to stick) and I don't fit that criteria at all considering my favorite Superman is the Bronze Age Superman and Superman The Movie is my all time favorite superhero movie.

[Powerboy]

I take it you haven't read DK3 (don't blame you especially after the DK2 debacle), because that book seems to be a huge apology to Superman fans especially during the climax where Batman's like "wow, Clark is way more awesome than me"

I enjoyed Man Of Steel (Hobo Of Steel is never going to stick) and I don't fit that criteria at all considering my favorite Superman is the Bronze Age Superman and Superman The Movie is my all time favorite superhero movie.

My favorite actor that played Superman is George Reeves although my favorite Lois Lane is Erica Durance and it's mind boggling trying to picture that combination. My favorite Superman is the early Golden Age and you can see the problems right there. The early GA goes contrary to most of his later career. Which means I'm a fan of what I think Superman is at his best rather than what he "really" is.

Then again, were I in grade school, the Silver Age Superman would be the best.

But when this thread started, I knew it was going to eventually turn into something akin to the long defunct DC Comics forums where "The "real" Superman is the versions I like best and "real" Superman fans understand this".

By the way, I do realize that people are very protective of the character and have very "solid" ideas of who and what he is.