Who was the 1st Manhunter (non-Martian) from DC (or Quality) you ever read about

[PyroTwilight]

Kate Spencer

Followed by Kirk DePaul when I was reading Power Company

[PyroTwilight]

However a small detail is incorrect. The first appearance of the Tangent Manhunter (there were two technically) was back in 1997 in Tangent Comics Secret Six.

Then she had a legacy technically when one of that universe's Joker's became the new Manhunter there if I'm remembering it right, during Tangent: Superman's Reign.

[MajorHoy]

My first exposure to a character called "Manhunter" was also the back-up stories in Detective Comics.



However, I've listed that Paul Kirk separately from the Golden Age Simon & Kirby costumed version because that Paul was so different. (And I always expect that someday he'll be revealed as yet another clone or he's from a different Earth, especially since (as CaptCleghorn pointed out) the Golden Age version would have been on Earth-Two in those pre-CoIE days.)

[Jim Kelly]

I know that Roy Thomas got around to including Manhunter in his ALL-STAR SQUADRON, as he did with every possible character from the 1940s that he could get his hands on--thus establshing there was a Paul Kirk on Earth-Two. But I don't know why Archie Goodwin and Walt Simonson should be beholden to that in 1973, when there were several 1940s characters living on Earth-One already.

Maybe I'm missing something and there's a key reason why Paul Kirk's adventures had to take place on Earth-Two, but I don't think so. He wasn't a member of the Justice Society or the Seven Soldiers--and it seems to me that Earth-Two originally was just supposed to be a reserve Earth, where they put characters that no longer fit the main continuity. The JSA contradicted what had happened with other super-heroes in the 1950s and 1960s, so they couldn't fit on Earth-One.

The Seven Soldiers of Victory have less problems--their main problem is Green Arrow, who could have been in that group and in the JLA, too--but Len Wein wanted to use them for the big crossover and even then he had to contort their history to make them fit on Earth-Two, despite the JSA having no memory of them.

I didn't like that Roy Thomas created these convoluted histories for the characters just so they could all be on his Earth-Two. Even if he wanted to use those characters, there was no rule that said they didn't have doppelgangers on many Earths. In fact, we know that was true for several established characters. So all Roy had to do was write about counterparts on Earth-Two--without interfering with the pre-established history on Earth-One for Paul Kirk, Zatara, Jim Harper, Sargon et al.

I like to think that Earth-One did have this history in the 1940s where there were many mystery men and women--but there just wasn't a Justice Society. Some people want Superman to be the first super-hero--but that never would have worked for Earth-One. Superboy (Clark) was always meeting other super-heroes in his adventures, so it's clear that he wasn't the first costumed hero on Earth-One.

In my head canon, I ignore the abuses done to continuity in the early 1980s--maybe it's an effect of the oncoming Crisis--and I believe that there were several counterparts on several Earths. It's much simpler that way.

[Kaijudo]

I think my first ones, if I'm remembering correctly, were the ones tied to the Millennium event...so Mark Shaw (even though he was Privateer at the time, it led to him becoming Manhunter) and the retired Dan Richards version. Then it was the Mark Shaw series and, following some time after, reading Paul Kirk in Robinson's THE GOLDEN AGE.

[MajorHoy]

. . . Maybe I'm missing something and there's a key reason why Paul Kirk's adventures had to take place on Earth-Two, but I don't think so. He wasn't a member of the Justice Society or the Seven Soldiers--and it seems to me that Earth-Two originally was just supposed to be a reserve Earth, where they put characters that no longer fit the main continuity. The JSA contradicted what had happened with other super-heroes in the 1950s and 1960s, so they couldn't fit on Earth-One.

It all goes back to the first Flash story with Barry Allen in Showcase #4 (September-October 1956):




So all those Golden Age comic book stories DC had published prior to 1956 were just that: stories.

Then, in The Flash #123 (Sept. 1961), the classic "Flash of Two Worlds", Barry wound up meeting the "real" Jay Garrick / Flash.



From there, it became a general belief/tradition that all those Golden Age DC comic book stories actually took place, but on a different Earth (Earth-2). And as more Golden Age characters from other companies were incorporated into DC's ranks, many of those characters were said to be from other Earths. (Characters originally from Quality Comics were on Earth-X; the Fawcett characters were on Earth-S; etc.)

[The Odd Man]

This was one of the earliest comics I can recall purchasing. It was also the first work of Jack Kirby's that I read. Who could resist this cover??

[CaptCleghorn]

I know that Roy Thomas got around to including Manhunter in his ALL-STAR SQUADRON, as he did with every possible character from the 1940s that he could get his hands on--thus establshing there was a Paul Kirk on Earth-Two. But I don't know why Archie Goodwin and Walt Simonson should be beholden to that in 1973, when there were several 1940s characters living on Earth-One already.

Maybe I'm missing something and there's a key reason why Paul Kirk's adventures had to take place on Earth-Two, but I don't think so. He wasn't a member of the Justice Society or the Seven Soldiers--and it seems to me that Earth-Two originally was just supposed to be a reserve Earth, where they put characters that no longer fit the main continuity. The JSA contradicted what had happened with other super-heroes in the 1950s and 1960s, so they couldn't fit on Earth-One.

The Seven Soldiers of Victory have less problems--their main problem is Green Arrow, who could have been in that group and in the JLA, too--but Len Wein wanted to use them for the big crossover and even then he had to contort their history to make them fit on Earth-Two, despite the JSA having no memory of them.

I didn't like that Roy Thomas created these convoluted histories for the characters just so they could all be on his Earth-Two. Even if he wanted to use those characters, there was no rule that said they didn't have doppelgangers on many Earths. In fact, we know that was true for several established characters. So all Roy had to do was write about counterparts on Earth-Two--without interfering with the pre-established history on Earth-One for Paul Kirk, Zatara, Jim Harper, Sargon et al.

I like to think that Earth-One did have this history in the 1940s where there were many mystery men and women--but there just wasn't a Justice Society. Some people want Superman to be the first super-hero--but that never would have worked for Earth-One. Superboy (Clark) was always meeting other super-heroes in his adventures, so it's clear that he wasn't the first costumed hero on Earth-One.

In my head canon, I ignore the abuses done to continuity in the early 1980s--maybe it's an effect of the oncoming Crisis--and I believe that there were several counterparts on several Earths. It's much simpler that way.

I'm going under the assumption that everything in DC (except Superboy) before 1955 was Earth Two. It's simplistic, yes, but what I think was the case. But these are comic books so we can certainly have different opinions on them, right?

In any case, the lack of questioning of the Paul Kirk Earth question may have been ignored just because the story was just that good. Or maybe the Earth-B Bob Haney stories pretty much put us in a "so what, shut up and read it anyway" state of mind. This is certainly a fanboy point I'm bringing up here, but this would be one of the only places to mention it without the expected "it's a forty year old comic book, get a life!" admonishment.

[MajorHoy]

. . . In any case, the lack of questioning of the Paul Kirk Earth question may have been ignored just because the story was just that good. Or maybe the Earth-B Bob Haney stories pretty much put us in a "so what, shut up and read it anyway" state of mind. This is certainly a fanboy point I'm bringing up here, but this would be one of the only places to mention it without the expected "it's a forty year old comic book, get a life!" admonishment.

In addition to Haney's Batman/Wildcat team-ups, other characters sometimes seemed to be present on both Earths that one would have thought should have been "Earth-Two" only (at least not unless it was explained there was more than one of them), but they were exceptions rather than the rule.

[Carabas]

Kate Spencer.

And after having sampled some of the others, she's still the only one I like.

[CaptCleghorn]

Kate Spencer.

And after having sampled some of the others, she's still the only one I like.

I'm surprised you didn't like the Goodwin/Simonson Paul Kirk.

[MajorHoy]

I think my first ones, if I'm remembering correctly, were the ones tied to the Millennium event...so Mark Shaw (even though he was Privateer at the time, it led to him becoming Manhunter) and the retired Dan Richards version. Then it was the Mark Shaw series and, following some time after, reading Paul Kirk in Robinson's THE GOLDEN AGE.

Well, since I'm not sure how to count this one, the unofficial results so far for all others who have posted lead to:

* - 1970s Paul Kirk (1st appeared Detective Comics #437, 1973) = 4 votes
* Mark Shaw (first appeared 1st Issue Special #5, Aug. 1975) = 3 votes,
tied with
* Kate Spencer (first appearance: Manhunter #1, October 2004) = 3 votes
* Kirk DePaul (another Kirk-clone; from Power Company) = 1 vote

[MajorHoy]

Decided to resurrect this thread, but now I've added a poll to it.
Better late than never . . .

[DrNewGod]

My first exposure to a character called "Manhunter" was also the back-up stories in Detective Comics.



However, I've listed that Paul Kirk separately from the Golden Age Simon & Kirby costumed version because that Paul was so different. (And I always expect that someday he'll be revealed as yet another clone or he's from a different Earth, especially since (as CaptCleghorn pointed out) the Golden Age version would have been on Earth-Two in those pre-CoIE days.)

Ditto! Absolutely my favorite of the name. Until Busiek gave us Kirk DePaul.

[DrNewGod]

I know that Roy Thomas got around to including Manhunter in his ALL-STAR SQUADRON, as he did with every possible character from the 1940s that he could get his hands on--thus establshing there was a Paul Kirk on Earth-Two. But I don't know why Archie Goodwin and Walt Simonson should be beholden to that in 1973, when there were several 1940s characters living on Earth-One already.

Maybe I'm missing something and there's a key reason why Paul Kirk's adventures had to take place on Earth-Two, but I don't think so. He wasn't a member of the Justice Society or the Seven Soldiers--and it seems to me that Earth-Two originally was just supposed to be a reserve Earth, where they put characters that no longer fit the main continuity. The JSA contradicted what had happened with other super-heroes in the 1950s and 1960s, so they couldn't fit on Earth-One.

The Seven Soldiers of Victory have less problems--their main problem is Green Arrow, who could have been in that group and in the JLA, too--but Len Wein wanted to use them for the big crossover and even then he had to contort their history to make them fit on Earth-Two, despite the JSA having no memory of them.

I didn't like that Roy Thomas created these convoluted histories for the characters just so they could all be on his Earth-Two. Even if he wanted to use those characters, there was no rule that said they didn't have doppelgangers on many Earths. In fact, we know that was true for several established characters. So all Roy had to do was write about counterparts on Earth-Two--without interfering with the pre-established history on Earth-One for Paul Kirk, Zatara, Jim Harper, Sargon et al.

I like to think that Earth-One did have this history in the 1940s where there were many mystery men and women--but there just wasn't a Justice Society. Some people want Superman to be the first super-hero--but that never would have worked for Earth-One. Superboy (Clark) was always meeting other super-heroes in his adventures, so it's clear that he wasn't the first costumed hero on Earth-One.

In my head canon, I ignore the abuses done to continuity in the early 1980s--maybe it's an effect of the oncoming Crisis--and I believe that there were several counterparts on several Earths. It's much simpler that way.

On one hand, I'm sure there was a certain amount of Thomas taking joy in playing with all his childhood toys. However, there's also something creatively worthwhile in giving us a reader's impression of the period, when all of these characters were on the newsstand at the same time.

Technically, regardless of what happened on E1, a Paul Kirk should have existed on E2 because he ran in Adventure Comics in the Golden Age. AC was the home of the likes of Sandman, Hourman, and Starman. So he had as much place in The All-Star Squadron as Zatarra, who also never had any other presence but his own feature, but who also had a counterpart on E1.