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  1. #7276
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stargazer01 View Post
    Isn't All Star Superman black label too? It's great and not for mature readers only.
    Retroactively to give the line more hits, like New Frontier. Neither are actually Black Label.

  2. #7277
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myskin View Post
    I read Mark Waid's run while it was being published and the differences between THAT run (which many people consider the definitive run to define Wally West-Flash as a character) and Johns' run, which followed, are deep. Wally's identity was public, and this played a fundamental role in several stories. Also, the rogues almost didn't appear (they played a minor role in Underworld Unleashed as far as I remember, and only to be killed). There was only one rogue, Kadabra, who for some reason had basically become Wally's archnemesis. Wally didn't even have a Zoom, unless you count Savitar, who was a distinctive character on his own account and had relatively no connections to Eobard Thawne. Two rogues - The Pied Piper and the Trickster - had become heroes (as far as I remember, Pied Piper's redemption had happened before Waid, while The Trickster redeemed himself during Underworld Unleashed).
    I really did not like Waid's revamp of Kadabra.
    All of these features - which were the elements which made Wally a distinct, unique character in comparison to Barry - were nullified during Johns' run. The rogues came back, a new Zoom appeared, James Jesse became evil again (at the end of the run, during Rogues War) and also Pied Piper became a fugitive again, even if in his case it was because he had been falsely accused. Johns also made Wally the father of a pair of twins, in what I have always considered a nod to the Tornado Twins, Barry Allen's kids. But the biggest twist was that he gave Wally West the secret identity back One More Day style (courtesy of Hal Jordan-The Spectre). I have nothing against Johns' run, it is enjoyable and everything, but to my eyes (and not only mine) it has always been clear that he restored many of Barry's most familiar elements even if the main Flash was Wally.
    I think Johns definitely brought to the forefront a lot of elements that were associated with Barry but he handled them in a way that made them distinct for Wally in my opinion.

    Like Hunter is nothing like Thawne beyond being obsessed with a Flash. Heck, his powers work completely different from other Speedsters.

    Piper was still a good guy, even if he found himself on the opposite side of the law after being framed. But Johns often enough made it clear he was still a good guy.

    The Rogues had different relationship with Wally then they did Barry. Johns also introduced some original Rogues for Wally that ended up forming their own Rogues group.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    I’m very annoyed certainly. Saw one creator talk about his post apocalyptic Superman pitch and he even had art to show on Twitter I think. It looked cool as hell and I don’t get why it was rejected. But then I don’t get why the Superman Family cartoon was rejected either, DC is full of morons.
    That's more WB then DC though. But I guess they also commissioned more Superman animated films then we've gotten in the past five years, so...silver lining?
    Quote Originally Posted by Last Son of Krypton View Post
    So... Luke Fox was apparently picked by Bendis as new Batman, Teen Lantern is rumored to be Hal's replacement, Jon as new Superman... I am getting the feeling that Bendis will be the writer of the All-New/All-Different Justice League. ��
    Get ready for street-level Justice League! Or a JLI revival .

  3. #7278
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    Just discovered this article, and I wonder how much of this data is playing a role in the rumors we've heard about : https://www.forbes.com/sites/robsalk.../#7ef3f5ec4d68
    @Korath posted this at main dc forum. This might explain why they are going 5G.korath also thinks 5G is connected to doomsday clock ending.

  4. #7279
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    I loved both Leviathan #5 and Superman #16. Bendis doesn't tick all of the right boxes but I certainly appreciate the ones he positively does. I was swept away by the thrill of the mystery unfolding in the one book and the two best friends reuniting in the other, among other weightier emotions captured perfectly in a single panel in both books. There's things I'd change, at the top of the list is for him to dial it back with his B-speak, it can take one out of a scene and miss what he's trying to convey, to have Jon around the Super books (read: his parents) a little longer before shipping him off into the future but otherwise, I'm a happy-ish customer.

  5. #7280
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    For, people that were doubting 5G rumours. Well, we got a big foreshadowing in superman #16. If this thing goes down and superman fans riot. Then there will be two possibilities
    1)jon will be erased completely
    2)jon goes back to his original state either as a 10 year old or close to Damian's age

  6. #7281
    Fantastic Member Man_of_Tomorrow's Avatar
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    The Forbes article talks a out kid oriented titles.

    And it explains that as ages 6-18. Most super hero titles are age 13+. Does that count as Superheroes or kid oriented?

    I am confused.

  7. #7282
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    For, people that were doubting 5G rumours. Well, we got a big foreshadowing in superman #16. If this thing goes down and superman fans riot. Then there will be two possibilities
    1)jon will be erased completely
    2)jon goes back to his original state either as a 10 year old or close to Damian's age
    That's what I'm anticipating. Its just about waiting around till Superman takes his rightful place back. Plenty of people will wait. Back in the day I would too. But in the famous words of Lethal Weapon's Murtaugh, I'm gettin too old for this ****.

    Whether its 1 or 2 will depend on how toxic things get. They could easily say "this can be salvaged if we go back", or their mindset could be Alura from New Krypton. Great new character, deep, lots of potential, good dynamics with the mainstays, but guilt by association and she was gone. Jon will have had success before the 5G and age-up stuff, so he'll have that going for him when its time tear this crap down.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

  8. #7283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    That's what I'm anticipating. Its just about waiting around till Superman takes his rightful place back. Plenty of people will wait. Back in the day I would too. But in the famous words of Lethal Weapon's Murtaugh, I'm gettin too old for this ****.

    Whether its 1 or 2 will depend on how toxic things get. They could easily say "this can be salvaged if we go back", or their mindset could be Alura from New Krypton. Great new character, deep, lots of potential, good dynamics with the mainstays, but guilt by association and she was gone.
    That’s definitely true. Though 1 doesn’t prevent 2 from happening down the road. Alura could come back without that baggage (assuming Supergirl hasn’t done something like that already).
    Currently Reading:

    DC: The Flash, Challenge of the Super Sons, Nightwing

    Image: Lazarus: Risen, The Old Guard, Black Magick

    Boom: Mighty Morphin', Power Rangers

  9. #7284
    Extraordinary Member DragonPiece's Avatar
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    Another reputable comics site besides bleeding cool confirmed that DC 5G is a real thing that’s happening and there is a crisis happening next year that will lead up to it. There are more details in the article: https://www.comicsbeat.com/everythin...-dc-comics-5g/
    Last edited by DragonPiece; 10-10-2019 at 03:08 PM.

  10. #7285
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Welp, its been fun, but this is likely where I get off. We'll see where I'm at a few years down the line when this all implodes in on itself, maybe the spark will still be there. But very possible at this stage it just won't anymore. Sounds like there's potential to get the classic characters elsewhere, but it looks like it'll be confined to period states, like WW in the 40s and so on. Which might be fun for a little while but the shine will wear off quick when that's what they're confined too. It would sound awesome if the period stuff went hand in hand with still being able to consume the characters in modern day tales, but with poor man's replacements being what you can get there, no thanks. Other option is that "5G" is set in the near future, meaning the classic characters could still exist in a present day setting. That seems unlikely with the way things seem to be shaping up in the Superman line for instance, but with so little info I guess its still a possibility. But I'd contend that would be very problematic in its own right as you go on, as having a rigid set future so close to the present day is extremely limiting and eventually you'd get creative choices greenlit for the present that would contradict the future, making it all so pointless in the end. Again I don't think that's the aim anyway, I think its the worse former scenario, but long story short both options suck.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 10-10-2019 at 02:40 PM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

  11. #7286
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonPiece View Post
    Another reputable comics site besides bleeding cool that confirmed DC 5G is a thing that’s happening and there is a crisis hypining next year that will happen before it. There are more details in the article https://www.comicsbeat.com/everythin...-dc-comics-5g/
    The article talks about accessibility, and I agree it's an issue. The way I see it, there are a few potential main-universe solutions (all of these apply to monthly issues, and not TPBs, which are very different)

    1. Go back to the old days where there were not long, continuing stories and continually changing good-guys and bad-guys. I wouldn't like going to non-progression, and I think it's the most extreme solution. Stopping the heel-face/face-heel turns so that a reader knows that the villain is a villain this month (and heroes staying heroic) would be plus, though. It seems like recently there's always some sort of shake-up in the works. It boosts sales among those already buying comics, but probably doesn't help with those who might be casual readers and pick up an occasional comic.

    2. Shorter stories. It takes a year or more to tell many stories. I've never been good with that (even back in my Marvel days), and prefer to binge-read back issues because of it. That may make me a bad source on this. A lot people don't want simpler stories, though, so it could alienate some. But I feel like we get too many issues where not much happens or momentum is lost. When something big and important happens, I want the reactions right away, not four issues later (Bruce hitting Tim being or Alfred's demise would be recent examples). I can enjoy reading some of these stories in TPB (guess that's why they call it writing for the trades) but it can be frustrating with a monthly/bi-montly. A new potential reader cannot pick up a comic and read a story, though.

    3. Fewer cross-over events that require the reader to buy many titles to get the full story. I get that if can boost sales if it works (and readers are willing to buy). But an existing reader can't read just their one title and get the story. Though, of course, if they move away from the subscription model, that's not an issue.

    4. Actually this is the most extreme - total/drastic reboots. And they may be going there. Stands a good chance of alienating long-term readers but may bring in new ones. But without any of the previous being done, you end up in the same place in 10 years.

  12. #7287
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    If this is another DCYou will upper management at DC finally change? Get Harras out of there at least.

  13. #7288
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    On the bright side, there's a pretty good chance we'll get a Scott Snyder JSA period piece out of this, which I am more than down for.
    Currently Reading:

    DC: The Flash, Challenge of the Super Sons, Nightwing

    Image: Lazarus: Risen, The Old Guard, Black Magick

    Boom: Mighty Morphin', Power Rangers

  14. #7289
    Extraordinary Member DragonPiece's Avatar
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    I will at least say the idea of Didio taking the recent publishing line inititves and applying them to continity seems really interesting. I think a way this works is if you do it all at once isntead of a spread out launch like bleeding cool seems to suggest. Do it more like a line wide relaunch such as rebirth and the new 52. Have a variety of diverse creators from old and new talent to attract both old and lasped readers. Really clarify to people that even the books in older periods matter and aren't just filler stories. There is a way that DC can do this and be very succesfull instead of just only aiming at new readers.


    With that said, while I am open to the idea of Jon as a teen and have been a Bendis defender, I really hate if we'll only get a year of this status quo of him in the legion. Reminds me how DC had new 52 superman reveal his identity and do the truth storyline when they were already planning rebirth.

  15. #7290
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonPiece View Post
    I will at least say the idea of Didio taking the recent publishing line inititves and applying them to continity seems really interesting. I think a way this works is if you do it all at once isntead of a spread out launch like bleeding cool seems to suggest. Do it more like a line wide relaunch such as rebirth and the new 52. Have a variety of diverse creators from old and new talent to attract both old and lasped readers. Really clarify to people that even the books in older periods matter and aren't just filler stories. There is a way that DC can do this and be very succesfull instead of just only aiming at new readers.


    With that said, while I am open to the idea of Jon as a teen and have been a Bendis defender, I really hate if we'll only get a year of this status quo of him in the legion. Reminds me how DC had new 52 superman reveal his identity and do the truth storyline when they were already planning rebirth.
    I absolutely hate the age-up, but I don't see why 5G would get in the way of Teen Jon on Legion. The idea is that Jon comes back from the future as an adult. He'd still have many years to spend in the 30th century. Chances are Bendis has a pretty big say how this all shakes out, so he's probably going to (try to) be consistent between the two titles (granted, he can't manage consistency in the titles he has now).
    Currently Reading:

    DC: The Flash, Challenge of the Super Sons, Nightwing

    Image: Lazarus: Risen, The Old Guard, Black Magick

    Boom: Mighty Morphin', Power Rangers

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