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  1. #7111
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    I don't think reboot either. I do think some fans will be scared of it, like I said before, and I wouldn't exactly fault them for it. There's precedence to worry (or I guess be excited depending on your preference). But I would agree that if we're leading to any sort of "Crisis" or otherwise title continuity shifter, it would be more of a fixer for all the history that's back in place as opposed to erasing it all again. Color me clueless if Didio has any sort of desire to try the reboot angle ever again, but even if he did I don't think he'd try to go about it the same way again either way. He seems content with this line having the history.
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  2. #7112
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    but that just seems something that's more fully entrenched on pushing the Superman identity as the primary aspect.
    I suppose that's more to deal with one's personal feelings on where the Superman aspect ends and where Clark begins. If you're feeling is that so long as he's flying or in the suit then it's Superman stuff. But, for me, I subscribe to the idea that the most "real" Clark is the guy who, paraphrasing Morrison, knows how to drive a tractor and walks his dog around Saturn. So that's down to the core Clark for me. That's only bolstered by Clark's family being an active part of his life and the dynamics within it. Clark is a guy with tethers, and those around coming along with him. So, again for me, all that's left is the function of the job. Clark Kent's job was characterized by it getting done the stuff Superman couldn't punch into submission. This does that.

    All that's lost is the privacy, and that's pretty deliberately the hangup because it's personal rather than functional.

    I'd rather not see the convention of the secret identity or why it exists get devalued to such an extent, even if it seems like something Bendis would do.
    But in this instance I don't think it's being devalued even when it's being taken away. I think it's the opposite. Bendis has stated on numerous occasions that being Clark Kent is the one thing Superman chose to do that he didn't have to. It's funny because that left me with the impression that he'd be pushing for more down to Earth reporter stories, but in reality the idea seems to be to just focus on the man himself as a whole. Clark's making another choice here. I like the idea of it being a hard moment for him.

    Even Bendis, with how flippant he is with the secret identity concept, has shown in his stories how utterly dangerous it can be when someone's identity is exposed or people who learn of a heroes identity getting in massive danger because of it. And that's just me limiting it to his work.
    Well, that's more context, right? That's the character, their world, and most of the writer to take into account. Hell, that's even the time period. Why this is dangerous for Spider-Man or Iron Man doesn't have to be one size fits all. Bendis setting the environment to where Superman is such a known and respected force that most smart people in the know are aware not to screw with Lois or any of his friends. They know not to even utter Lois' name in mixed company. This is a world where Clark showing up and saying "cut it out" stops dozens of people from looting. World established. In the context of this seasoned and established Superman, the secret identity is only for personal reasons rather than the protection of any loved ones.

    I think of it as an indulgence in some respects, if also a hindrance in others, but I wouldn't wholesale just call it an indulgence if only because I feel it should have more value and purpose then that. But that's just me.
    I say indulgence, but I obviously don't mean to break it down into JUST that. However, it is largely personally, and I've always loved that about it. Clark is Clark because he wants to be. He's a writer because he wants to be. And he likes to have a few hours in his day when he's thought of as just another guy because it feels good and he wants to. Acknowledging deeply personal core of his secret identity doesn't invalidate it. And keeping it personal and having Clark work through this (with Lois from the sound of it) keeps Clark and his character at the center of it all.
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  3. #7113
    Mighty Member Yoda's Avatar
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    It'd be kinda funny if Bendis ends up having him still walk around as Clark Kent half the time and people still not recognize him.

  4. #7114
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    I'd kind of love that.

    But what I'm not-so-secretly hoping for is some sort of President Superman formal wear that he's gotta wear sometimes. Just a cool bit of visual distinction.
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  5. #7115

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    So, they are going full fantastic four with superfamily being celebrity superheroes . I guess it could be good. I just hope jon gets to be back in present from time to time. I hope this works and lois isn't to blame this time Because it sucked last time.
    I hope, this doesn't mean we won't get the cool street level stories in action comics with daily planet staff. It's been a while since the planet staff were in focus. I don't want to loose the daily planet. I have mixed feelings on clark loosing his writing job.
    I hope this turns out to be the "i am iron man" moment for clark
    Edit:-wait what about doomsday clock? In it clark was a reporter. It was said to be taking place in the future. What is going on? Don't tell me they are going to have johns rewrites again.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 09-13-2019 at 09:26 PM.

  6. #7116
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    So, they are going full fantastic four with superfamily being celebrity superheroes . I guess it could be good. I just hope jon gets to be back in present from time to time. I hope this works and lois isn't to blame this time Because it sucked last time.
    I hope, this doesn't mean we won't get the cool street level stories in action comics with daily planet staff. It's been a while since the planet staff were in focus. I don't want to loose the daily planet. I have mixed feelings on clark loosing his writing job.
    I hope this turns out to be the "i am iron man" moment for clark
    Edit:-wait what about doomsday clock? In it clark was a reporter. It was said to be taking place in the future. What is going on? Don't tell me they are going to have johns rewrites again.
    I think the people saying Bendis Superman and Snyder JL take place post-DDC are going to be correct. And no there’s no way for Johns to do more rewrites at this point.

  7. #7117

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    I think the people saying Bendis Superman and Snyder JL take place post-DDC are going to be correct. And no there’s no way for Johns to do more rewrites at this point.
    But,a version of legion needs(at the very least) to make an appearance in ddc for that narrative to be tied up.And clark had no idea who the legion where in superman #14. If clark met legion in ddc and current superman is after ddc. Then clark should remember them right?

  8. #7118
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    If they end up showing up in Doomsday Clock 12, they wouldn't have to meet Clark. Similar to how the could just be shown on panel as having been reborn as this new version, and that would get the point across perfectly.
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  9. #7119

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    If they end up showing up in Doomsday Clock 12, they wouldn't have to meet Clark. Similar to how the could just be shown on panel as having been reborn as this new version, and that would get the point across perfectly.
    But, what about the quest to meet clark? I guess, that will also be red herring. Man! This just blows. I hope, Whatever is left of ddc is still good. I mean, so much for being the best book since watchmen hype. Blah!

  10. #7120
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    But, what about the quest to meet clark? I guess, that will also be red herring. Man! This just blows. I hope, Whatever is left of ddc is still good. I mean, so much for being the best book since watchmen hype. Blah!
    The quest is framed as quixotic in nature once you realize where Saturn Girl is from. Red herring is exactly the word for it because she was deliberately placed there to mislead, and put Manhattan's powers of perception into question. In other words: Manhattan doesn't destroy the future if there's someone from the future telling us the whole time that everything turns out ok, thus we'd assume his second assumption--the one where he dies--is true.

    Taking her away and making her totally unreliable as an indicator of what the future holds puts the climax into question, thus Johns has done his job as a writer in the most basic sense of the word.
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  11. #7121
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    I don't think reboot either. I do think some fans will be scared of it, like I said before, and I wouldn't exactly fault them for it. There's precedence to worry (or I guess be excited depending on your preference). But I would agree that if we're leading to any sort of "Crisis" or otherwise title continuity shifter, it would be more of a fixer for all the history that's back in place as opposed to erasing it all again. Color me clueless if Didio has any sort of desire to try the reboot angle ever again, but even if he did I don't think he'd try to go about it the same way again either way. He seems content with this line having the history.
    Yeah, I think maybe what Didio really wants is a chance to tel new stories with new angles, and a chance to leave his mark on the line. Reboots allow you to do new stories with new angles; even though you restart the history you've got modern sensibilities driving the narrative (Morrison's Action being a great example of the approach) but fans hate losing their continuity more than anything, except cheap gimmicks. So maybe (and this is just a wild, crazy guess of mine) Didio might approach it from the other side; new status quo's but old continuity. That'd be a shift from what we have now, which is classic status quo's without the history behind them.

    I'm against reboots but this kind of approach is fine with me, as long as the changes made to the current setting are ones that make sense and feel like natural evolution rather than cheap gimmicks.

    But again, I'm just pulling this theory out of my ass.
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  12. #7122
    Astonishing Member DragonPiece's Avatar
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    Honestly I do think some sort of reboot/crisis is on the way. That DC hell arisen event pretty much screams one is happening at the end. Especially the way Tynion talked in the interview about it. It has Perpetua, who wants to create a new multiverse with Lex and Batman Who Laughs who wants to infect this multiverse with the dark multiverse...if either one wins, it's clear the multiverse won't be the same. Which is why I think some sort of reboot has to happen. They said that event will end in March I think, so maybe we can expect something around then?

  13. #7123
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonPiece View Post
    Honestly I do think some sort of reboot/crisis is on the way. That DC hell arisen event pretty much screams one is happening at the end. Especially the way Tynion talked in the interview about it. It has Perpetua, who wants to create a new multiverse with Lex and Batman Who Laughs who wants to infect this multiverse with the dark multiverse...if either one wins, it's clear the multiverse won't be the same. Which is why I think some sort of reboot has to happen. They said that event will end in March I think, so maybe we can expect something around then?
    We know Snyder has talked about doing a “Metal 2” with Capullo. I still say that will be the upcoming Summer 2020 event and it will lead to a linewide relaunch but not a reboot.

  14. #7124
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    I suppose that's more to deal with one's personal feelings on where the Superman aspect ends and where Clark begins. If you're feeling is that so long as he's flying or in the suit then it's Superman stuff. But, for me, I subscribe to the idea that the most "real" Clark is the guy who, paraphrasing Morrison, knows how to drive a tractor and walks his dog around Saturn. So that's down to the core Clark for me. That's only bolstered by Clark's family being an active part of his life and the dynamics within it. Clark is a guy with tethers, and those around coming along with him. So, again for me, all that's left is the function of the job. Clark Kent's job was characterized by it getting done the stuff Superman couldn't punch into submission. This does that.
    I think it does get into how far one distinguishes someone's character from who they are inherently to who they are when they put on a costume. For me if there is supposed to be an element of duality to the character then, even if they're inherently the same person no matter what they're wearing and that plays into how they act, it's not the same to me if you try to take away that duality.

    It doesn't feel like a proper replacement for what Clark Kent did when it feels like more of an extension of who he is as Superman now. Especially when, no matter how he approaches it, it's still a Superman-level issue.
    All that's lost is the privacy, and that's pretty deliberately the hangup because it's personal rather than functional.
    I think it had a function. We can debate whether that function has had much of a purpose as of late or to the extent of it, but I felt it still had one.
    Well, that's more context, right? That's the character, their world, and most of the writer to take into account. Hell, that's even the time period. Why this is dangerous for Spider-Man or Iron Man doesn't have to be one size fits all. Bendis setting the environment to where Superman is such a known and respected force that most smart people in the know are aware not to screw with Lois or any of his friends. They know not to even utter Lois' name in mixed company. This is a world where Clark showing up and saying "cut it out" stops dozens of people from looting. World established. In the context of this seasoned and established Superman, the secret identity is only for personal reasons rather than the protection of any loved ones.
    Definitely when you look at it in the context of what Bendis has set up it's become or is shown as more of a luxury then a necessity, but that just goes back to what I'm worried about of devaluing the concept and the importance of Superman's secret identity.

    It's not that I don't like how seriously people take Superman or are wary of messing with him, but not to where I'd like to lose such an established part of the mythos in furthering this new status quo. But that's just me.

  15. #7125
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    it's not the same to me if you try to take away that duality.
    I think that goes without saying by the very definition of the change, or there'd be no point.

    It doesn't feel like a proper replacement for what Clark Kent did when it feels like more of an extension of who he is as Superman now. Especially when, no matter how he approaches it, it's still a Superman-level issue.
    You're using the word "replacement" but it's not accurate for what's being described here. And forgive me if I used it during this exchange, but I'd say "evolution" of what Clark Kent did to fight injustice that Superman couldn't is closer. Clark's job was to use his words and mind to affect change. But to be sure, it's going to more on Superman's scale, so there's no argument there. But the why I'm breaking it down in my mind is Superman/President El/downtime Clark. The duality is blurred because of there being no clear addition of glasses or what have you, but in this run we've seen shades of each of those sides. Again, that doesn't replace the duality, but it's less cut and dry than "Superman 24/7"

    I think it had a function. We can debate whether that function has had much of a purpose as of late or to the extent of it, but I felt it still had one.
    You're defensive on this, and I'm not sure why. His privacy in and of itself is reason enough. I'm not arguing its functionality to Clark as a person, but rather in an objective sense to his overall mission as a hero. Clark being able to get a burger without it being front page news doesn't help him save the world or galaxy any better. It's a thing he of all people should have a right to, yes, but that's as high as its functionality goes. And that, to me, is fantastic and human, and it makes the idea of him making this choice quite strong.

    As Bendis has said, being Clark Kent is the choice that Superman made even when he didn't have to.


    It's not that I don't like how seriously people take Superman or are wary of messing with him, but not to where I'd like to lose such an established part of the mythos in furthering this new status quo. But that's just me.
    We just have different schools of thought when it comes to this. I don't see it as devaluing.
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