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  1. #8176
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Now, conner is Clark's son. Since, when?
    Oh God...you are actually in-real-actual-life serious, aren't you? That was your takeaway from Jon's comments? Instead of taking it as hyperbole and a joke that it clearly was, you've decided to, what, take it at face value that Jon *legitimately* thinks his dad just got a new son while he was away? That's the go-to assumption rather than clocking the fact that Jon came home to find that a kid around his age that looks like him and his dad is here, wearing an S, and has Kryptonian powers (there's even the very real possibility that by the point of this exchange Conner has already told Clark and Jon that biologically he's half Lex and half Clark), and he's Jon's now likely joking about what this looks like (ie "you've replaced me").

    You do you, I guess.
    Last edited by Superlad93; 02-25-2020 at 10:22 PM.
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  2. #8177
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    Oh God...you are actually in-real-actual-life serious, aren't you? That was your takeaway from Jon's comments? Instead of taking it as hyperbole and a joke that it clearly was, you've decided to, what, take it at face value that Jon *legitimately* thinks his dad just got a new son while he was away? That's the go-to assumption rather than clocking the fact that Jon came home to find that a kid around his age that looks like him and his dad is here, wearing an S, and has Kryptonian powers (there's even the very real possibility that Conner has already told Clark and Jon that biologically he's half Lex and half Clark), and he's Jon's now likely joking about what this looks like (ie "you've replaced me").

    You do you, I guess.
    Well, yeah! I am a bit insecure regarding the character. Because wally west is my favourite . His traits where taken and given to another character. Soon, the guy got erased and even after he got back he isn't being treated properly. So, this making jon like others business or vice versa. Brings back flashbacks. The character is not allowed to stand on its own feet. Has bendis done anything to propell jon as a standalone?he hasn't.I could definitely see them erasing the kid saying he is redundant. Many here have even commented without it being true.Imagine when it does become true.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Personally I don't care either way. I'm one of the fans who didn't want Clark to be a father in the first place. Ten year old Jon was fun and had plenty of miles left in him, but teen Space Prince Jon has been fun as well (if rushed), just in a different way. And in the end I'd rather he not exist in the first place, so....whatever. Bendis gets Clark and writes him properly, better than almost any other modern writer (how did that happen?) and he's good with the Planet and has improved dramatically with Lois. And he got Conner back. So Jon? Whatever.
    Granted @Ascended doesn't particularly care for jon as is. But, that doesn’t mean his opinion is invalid. There is already this stupid comparison between jon and conner that has no basis. They were two different characters. So having them be like each other puts a lot of pressure
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 02-25-2020 at 11:14 PM.

  3. #8178
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Well, yeah! I am a bit insecure regarding the character. Because wally west is my favourite . His traits where taken and given to another character. Soon, the guy got erased and even after he got back he isn't being treated properly. So, this making jon like others business or vice versa. Brings back flashbacks. The character is not allowed to stand on its own feet. Has bendis done anything to propell jon as a standalone?he hasn't.
    Once again, you do you.
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  4. #8179
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    No, I am with you 100%.

    Jon and Conner talking and *not* getting into a stupid fight? Sounding good so far.

    Jon and Conner seeming to get along with the kind of weird brotherly dynamic only the Supers can provide? Looking like it.

    Calling Conner's "trying to hard" jacket fabulous? Yes, that is the only correct word to use.
    I was totally off when I assumed Bendis would have the boys at odds a few months ago.

    But yeah, I'm really digging that exchange. I'm actually reminded of my conversations with Robanker regarding Jon's personality. And this sort of disarming 'lightness' that's nearly completely devoid of ego is so charming. When faced with some weird alternate timeline/dimension clone of his dad that's around his age, Jon's apparent first instinct is to make a slightly self-deprecating joke to lighten the mood and flatter and complement this stranger.

    I've been noticing it bit-by-bit, but there's this sort of natural ease and chill to Jon. It's almost shades of Dick Grayson, if I can be so bold as to make the comparison. And I'm noticing the contrast between him and just about all incarnations of Conner. It's actually pretty apt that you say "trying too hard" because that just about sums up Conner's character. From his bravado in the 90s to his constant introspection in the Johns era. He's a raw and sensitive nerve of a character who does a lot of masking and hiding, and pins his ego and self-worth on the casted out mold of someone else. There's a nuanced difference between "I wanna grow up to be like my dad someday" and "if I'm not HIM someday then what was the point of me".

    The two characters, on a conceptual level, almost seem to inform and embolden each other in some ways. I'm really looking forward to how the bounce off each other.
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  5. #8180
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    I was expecting a uncle-nephew relation. Not this nonsense . Now, conner is Clark's son. Since, when? The guy didn't raise him. Then why even have jon. Bendis is no good for jon. Sheesh! The guy is single handedly taking the character apart. What's next conner is Clark's sidekick?bad enough! The guy made jon do exact same story beats as superman and now forced his personality on him. Just end it already.Big whoop! Jon and conner didn't fight. Blah! Atleast that would have been entertaining.
    Uncle-nephew would have been cool, BUT!!!! Conner didnt age (maybe he was even deaged during the switch to Rebirth) and Jonathan was aged up.

    So uncle-nephew would have been cool, if they would have used Johns TT Conner and let him age up during the transition and bring IC and the memories at him back and let Jonathan be a kid.

  6. #8181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tzigone View Post
    The exchange just reminds me again how much I hate the concept of Kon as Clark's son. Love original Kon, and he was not that and did not want to be. I also dislike Conner being treated like his "real" name by those who know him well, because he didn't get that name until well after he got his first real name of Kon-El. I know it's a lost cause, but it's how I feel about it.
    For me its this way:

    It depends WHO!!! says it:
    -Friends from Earth: Conner,Clark...because it gives the feeling as if you recognize them as citizens of the Earth.
    Calling them Kal-El,Kon-El....would create a distance and would give them more an ALIEN LABEL

    -For Brainiac,Lex Luthor,other Aliens
    I prefer Kon-El,Kal-El....because its more natural that they use the Alien Name to label him as Alien.

    It sounds more natural and more friendly if Tim calls him Conner because it gives more the feeling that they are close to each other than if he would label him Kon-El.



    Kon as Clarks Son:

    I dont understand what you mean with it.
    Kon-El was always labeled as Clarks COUSIN and not as Son.

    I mean the closest thing which you can name the two would be BROTHERS like in YJ (ANIME) because they were raised by Jonathan and Martha Kent.


    I personally prefer the BROTHER solution and if I use Dragon Ball I would prefer

    Clark as Son Goku
    Jonathan as Son Gohan
    Conner as Vegeta

    I personally would LOVE it this way: So having Conner as Clarks younger brother, who is more impulsive etc. and tries to train etc. and become better than Clark.

  7. #8182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    I was totally off when I assumed Bendis would have the boys at odds a few months ago.

    But yeah, I'm really digging that exchange. I'm actually reminded of my conversations with Robanker regarding Jon's personality. And this sort of disarming 'lightness' that's nearly completely devoid of ego is so charming. When faced with some weird alternate timeline/dimension clone of his dad that's around his age, Jon's apparent first instinct is to make a slightly self-deprecating joke to lighten the mood and flatter and complement this stranger.

    I've been noticing it bit-by-bit, but there's this sort of natural ease and chill to Jon. It's almost shades of Dick Grayson, if I can be so bold as to make the comparison. And I'm noticing the contrast between him and just about all incarnations of Conner. It's actually pretty apt that you say "trying too hard" because that just about sums up Conner's character. From his bravado in the 90s to his constant introspection in the Johns era. He's a raw and sensitive nerve of a character who does a lot of masking and hiding, and pins his ego and self-worth on the casted out mold of someone else. There's a nuanced difference between "I wanna grow up to be like my dad someday" and "if I'm not HIM someday then what was the point of me".

    The two characters, on a conceptual level, almost seem to inform and embolden each other in some ways. I'm really looking forward to how the bounce off each other.
    To be fair its also much harder for Conner:

    1.) His purpose was to be the replacement for Clark...This was at least what he thought and he started with this thought.
    This was his direction....
    At this time Clark was considered death so he really believed that its his destiny....

    Jonathan had an easier start....

    2.) Jonathan is the son of Clark and Lois...
    Conner has the DNA of Clark and Lex....
    So he said that he could either becoming the world greatest hero or world greatest villain....

    And also other people will look down on him or so for being half Luthor....

    Jonathan doesnt has this burden....

    3.) Jonathan is the SON while Conner is a Hybrid Clone...
    It gives you a lot more confidence if you can say to Clark that you are HIS SON, while Conner is the "Experiment".

    4.) Conner was confronted with his evil counterparts Black Zero and Titans of Tomorrow Superman..

  8. #8183
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    The fact that this random piece of dialogue, taken out of context, can be visualized so clearly and without any hint of artwork to accompany it, is pretty telling. This reads very basic, normative, formulaic and uninspired. I never wanted them to fight or anything like that but no one related to Superman should ever talk or react like this.

  9. #8184
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Well, yeah! I am a bit insecure regarding the character. Because wally west is my favourite . His traits where taken and given to another character. Soon, the guy got erased and even after he got back he isn't being treated properly. So, this making jon like others business or vice versa. Brings back flashbacks. The character is not allowed to stand on its own feet. Has bendis done anything to propell jon as a standalone?he hasn't.I could definitely see them erasing the kid saying he is redundant. Many here have even commented without it being true.Imagine when it does become true.

    Granted @Ascended doesn't particularly care for jon as is. But, that doesn’t mean his opinion is invalid. There is already this stupid comparison between jon and conner that has no basis. They were two different characters. So having them be like each other puts a lot of pressure
    I get being concerned because of the Wally situation. But Jon and Conner are two very different characters, I don't think you have to worry about one over-shadowing the other, or rubbing off too much on the other. If nothing else, the Wally thing doesn't totally apply because Wallace was supposed to be a new version of Wally, whereas Jon and Conner are distinct and separate characters from the start.

    But read that dialogue again man; this isn't a serious conversation they're having. Jon doesn't *actually* think he's been replaced by a new son. The entire conversation is too "fun" for something like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    I was totally off when I assumed Bendis would have the boys at odds a few months ago.
    Yes, *that* would have been normative, formulaic, and uninspired. Of course, that still might happen, we haven't seen the issue yet.

    I've been noticing it bit-by-bit, but there's this sort of natural ease and chill to Jon. It's almost shades of Dick Grayson, if I can be so bold as to make the comparison
    I've been thinking the super chill and relaxed All-Star Superman myself (and Bendis has rubbed a whole lot of Silver Age into Jon so that's fitting), but yeah there's shades of Dick Grayson in the way Jon handles himself.
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  10. #8185
    Extraordinary Member DragonPiece's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSuperMule View Post
    The fact that this random piece of dialogue, taken out of context, can be visualized so clearly and without any hint of artwork to accompany it, is pretty telling. This reads very basic, normative, formulaic and uninspired. I never wanted them to fight or anything like that but no one related to Superman should ever talk or react like this.
    Is it really this dramatic that Jon isn’t allowed to say fabulous? Why exactly can’t a Superman related character say that, because it’s feminine?

  11. #8186
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonPiece View Post
    Is it really this dramatic that Jon isn’t allowed to say fabulous? Why exactly can’t a Superman related character say that, because it’s feminine?
    Because the kid has never been that flamboyant. It's the same as "pa". It's jarring.

  12. #8187
    Wonder Moderator Gaelforce's Avatar
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    Let's keep the snide GIFs off the boards, please
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  13. #8188
    Mighty Member Yoda's Avatar
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    I read that exchange as kinda sarcastic from Jon's end. Mainly cause I don't think anyone can really take Conner's jacket seriously.

  14. #8189
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Exactly. Conner' jacket looks like something somebody in a pop rock band would wear. One of those suburb kids trying way too hard to be rock an roll. It's definitely not badass. It wouldn't even have been cool back in the 90's (maybe the 80's). Fabulous seems a perfectly valid term.

    And I swear Jon's come out with some odd word choices in the past.

    In the end, it's a single word in a comic that will be full of them. If someone is gonna get a hair across their ass about a single word....I mean, I get wanting characters to sound right, but it's *one* word. At this point, feels like it's not critiquing the work so much as just looking for stuff to complain about.

    Like Jon saying "Great Scott" in Legion recently. I mean, I hate that saying, and hated it twenty years ago when Clark was still using it un-ironically, but Jon seems to be using these terms in a tongue-in-cheek kind of way, and that seems very much in-line with his characterization to me.
    Last edited by Ascended; 02-26-2020 at 04:26 PM.
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  15. #8190
    Savior of the Universe Flash Gordon's Avatar
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    Well, Conner is cooler than Jon. Doesn't mean he's superior as an individual, but Jon can be aware of the fact.

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