Official : Bendis gets both books

[Yoda]

Is there really a demand for a single young Superman over what we have now? They tried to make that work for five years with continually diminishing returns. The only one who made that work was Morrison and he doesn’t have any real interest in continuing it.

The new head of DC from Warner Bros. is apparently concerned with the comics matching people’s expectations of the characters from other media. Hence no more Batman comics with full frontal nudity. The marriage, or at least the Lois & Clark relationship is probably safe given it’s been the default for 40 years of media. Jon is probably less safe, but from a marketing point of view he may be more valuable in the DC Zoom line now.

And Bendis has gone out of his way to talk up the Clark/Jon relationship as being central to his plans, as Jon is a goldmine to him story wise and he sees it as a story of fathers and sons per several interviews. Same with the non-traditional family. Like I said earlier in the thread, we are barely into act one, the new status quo for the family has not been established yet. Assumptions that Bendis is just trying to clear the board of Lois and Jon are premature.

I mean, if anything a teenage Jon is right in Bendis’s wheelhouse.

[Vordan]

Don’t know if there’s a demand for a young Clark, but the popularity of Kon and Jon shows that there is an interest in exploring what someone would do with Superman’s powers at a young age. I certainly wouldn’t mind a few stories told about Clark’s early years, similar to what Tom King did with WoJaR albeit better plotted out than that was.

[Yoda]

Don’t know if there’s a demand for a young Clark, but the popularity of Kon and Jon shows that there is an interest in exploring what someone would do with Superman’s powers at a young age. I certainly wouldn’t mind a few stories told about Clark’s early years, similar to what Tom King did with WoJaR albeit better plotted out than that was.

That's true. Smallville was pretty popular as well. And American Alien is a personal favorite of mine. I guess I meant that going back to the mainline Superman being young and inexperienced.

And really, Reborn has left the year one period pretty open to retelling.

[Vordan]

That's true. Smallville was pretty popular as well. And American Alien is a personal favorite of mine. I guess I meant that going back to the mainline Superman being young and inexperienced.

And really, Reborn has left the year one period pretty open to retelling.

You could always do Year 2 stuff as well. How’d Clark and Maggie Sawyer first meet? How did Clark win a Pulitzer, or did he ever actually win one? How’d Lois and Clark start dating? I don’t think we need another origin story any time soon, but a couple of early Superman stories would be welcome on my end.

[Sacred Knight]

Is there really a demand for a single young Superman over what we have now? They tried to make that work for five years with continually diminishing returns. The only one who made that work was Morrison and he doesn’t have any real interest

Yeah, there is. I'd argue there's demand for more different takes on Superman than even that. Lots of people want to see more of President Superman, for example. The ideals of this fanbase which can be wildly different, for a variety of reasons when it comes to Superman. But that was one they had some proven success with. No of course it didn't retain massive highs and leveled out, but that's the same with every initiative with DC's current business model. They don't sustain success, they start off an initiative high, then diminish. Rebirth did the exact same thing. Its just that its only the cool thing to mention it with New 52 and ignore with with Rebirth. And Morrison wasn't the only one who made it work. The mistake is in replaceing one thing for another. And considering Superman--and other characters as well but its most apparent with Superman---is so old as a concept that there's room for more than one interpretation due to the vast history. That's why he's routinely gotten so much imaginary/Elseworlds content in the past.

[Superlad93]

I know DC's way more interested in moving forward/staying in the "perpetual now" in terms of timeline because their history is in flux/ill defined, and that's fine--great even, but I'd very much like some of that War of Jokes & Riddles treatment for Superman. Put it in the same nebulous "early career" that King did with Batman.

[Yoda]

I know DC's way more interested in moving forward/staying in the "perpetual now" in terms of timeline because their history is in flux/ill defined, and that's fine--great even, but I'd very much like some of that War of Jokes & Riddles treatment for Superman. Put it in the same nebulous "early career" that King did with Batman.

Maybe that’s what Bendis’s big project with Sook is. Getting to reestablish the early years of Superman would be a pretty big deal for him.

[Superlad93]

Maybe that’s what Bendis’s big project with Sook is. Getting to reestablish the early years of Superman would be a pretty big deal for him.

That's actually a really good guess. He says it's "the biggest thing they've ever worked on" or thereabouts.

You know something, now that DC seems to be actively linking the Legion with Superman again, Bendis is working towards the United Planets (and likely having Jon join the Legion), and giving them an upcoming book, you don't suppose this possible early years book with Sook ends up being Superman's adventures with the Legion when he was a teen or in college? Bendis seems to absolutely adores the Legion and Superboy with the Legion.

And to my knowledge, almost no one has touched the Clark as Superboy with the Legion years in any amount of detail. I'm sure he'd take the chance to make sure all of the stories he grew up reading were in continuity while forging his whole modern dynamic. I'd be interested in this.

[Yoda]

That's actually a really good guess. He says it's "the biggest thing they've ever worked on" or thereabouts.

You know something, now that DC seems to be actively linking the Legion with Superman again, Bendis is working towards the United Planets (and likely having Jon join the Legion), and giving them an upcoming book, you don't suppose this possible early years book with Sook ends up being Superman's adventures with the Legion when he was a teen or in college? Bendis seems to absolutely adores the Legion and Superboy with the Legion.

And to my knowledge, almost no one has touched the Clark as Superboy with the Legion years in any amount of detail. I'm sure he'd take the chance to make sure all of the stories he grew up reading were in continuity while forging his whole modern dynamic. I'd be interested in this.

Considering the scope of Bendis's career, and the amount of line wide crossovers he's headed, it's got to be something pretty serious. I was leaning towards a post next Crisis reboot but the timing really doesn't make sense for that. But getting to re-establish the origin and foundational years of the original superhero is pretty big. He's already done that with an alternate Spider-Man.

And he's definitely got something planned with the Legion. I watched his MIT interview a little bit and he joked about rereading the the legion of superheroes.

[Vordan]

I doubt Bendis would write the Legion himself given he’s already got 2 Superbooks and 2 creative imprints to oversee, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s setting stuff up for the Legion. Maybe he’s pushing to put one of his guys on the book, like how Marc Andrenko got Supergirl (which I’m really enjoying fwiw).

[Superlad93]

But getting to re-establish the origin and foundational years of the original superhero is pretty big. He's already done that with an alternate Spider-Man.

And he's definitely got something planned with the Legion. I watched his MIT interview a little bit and he joked about rereading the the legion of superheroes.

Yeah, and I'd imagine it's something he'd very much want to do. The thought of a young Clark Kent as Superboy adventuring with the Legion and just all around growing into a man being drawn by Sook gives me chills.

I think the only thing that makes me rethink this theory is Sook. He's an Action Comics artist, and Action is about to do the Leviathan story line and it's not really dealing with cosmic stuff at all. This is something I'd imagine would go in Superman. But there's the chance that Bendis might get a mini out of this similar to what War of Jokes and Riddles was originally supposed to be before Didio asked them to fold it into the main book?

Whatever the project is, I really, really hope it's directly Superman related.

[Yoda]

I don't think Sook is on Action anymore after 1005. From the looks of the solicits Steve Epting may have the next few issues or even the whole arc.

[Yoda]

Yeah, there is. I'd argue there's demand for more different takes on Superman than even that. Lots of people want to see more of President Superman, for example. The ideals of this fanbase which can be wildly different, for a variety of reasons when it comes to Superman. But that was one they had some proven success with. No of course it didn't retain massive highs and leveled out, but that's the same with every initiative with DC's current business model. They don't sustain success, they start off an initiative high, then diminish. Rebirth did the exact same thing. Its just that its only the cool thing to mention it with New 52 and ignore with with Rebirth. And Morrison wasn't the only one who made it work. The mistake is in replaceing one thing for another. And considering Superman--and other characters as well but its most apparent with Superman---is so old as a concept that there's room for more than one interpretation due to the vast history. That's why he's routinely gotten so much imaginary/Elseworlds content in the past.

I think you're probably right. The Elseworlds books were always interesting, Batman's have held up better than many of the Superman ones, but that is one area the modern DC catalog has more or less ignored. Although the Injustice universe could be considered an ongoing Elseworlds more or less. I was thinking more in the ballpark of the ongoing titles.

So what do you take from the sales trajectory of the New 52, Rebirth, and now Bendis-era? Is the baseline Superman sales just within the 38-45K range when the hype of whatever marketing push wears off? I mean they tried a complete reboot with the New 52. And that wore off. Rebirth brought a good number of older readers back into the fold and was met with a broader fan and critical acceptance, but settled back into numbers a little better than the lows of the New 52 era. But the books seemed to be charting higher consistently as they settled back into the 40-50K range.

And do you factor in the general constriction of the comic market over the last 5 years at all? Sales are down a certain percentage across the board, the fact that the books are selling in the same range actually means they are holding onto more readers than your typical book? Or in other words, is the 45K that a late era Rebirth book was selling better for DC than the 45K sales a late New 52 book was pulling? A lot of books that are considered successful today would have been in the bottom of the charts 20 years ago. So while sales numbers are a hard stat you can point to, the numbers need context.

To bring this back around to on topic, if Bendis's numbers settle back into a 45K range what should their next step be?

[Naruto1996]

So Jon is the new Superboy Prime? interesting maybe something better than what was seen in the new 52 with jon lane kent

[Sacred Knight]

The Superboy Prime allusion is just tongue in cheek. Intended to cause fanboy rage of which it succeeded. No indication the kid is going to turn evil or go crazy. Just probably angsty.