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  1. #4696

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    That's fair. If they choose not to continue with the set up the maxi has going, then the dynamic will have to change. I get the frustration with that potential eventuality. That said I think there's a solid chance they might continue doing just that. If fans aren't really bothered with the idea of when exactly in the timeline these adventures take place and are fine with just a general "some time before Jon left with Jor-El", I think the current SS could continue as is as long as sales are decent enough.
    That won't work,if that is the case. Make the supersons it's own reality in hypertime. A new branch in time. The whole filler thing is boging the book down and limiting it. It should have it's own superfamily, batfamily and have it's own dcu. Jon and Damian are literally and figuratively running around in circles. Because of having it be in this limited time frame it has become directionless filler. It is frustrating to think how boring once great superson has become. DC has really dropped the ball on that.
    Otherwise, it would be better and I would want supersons to continue in the current timeline. With aged up jon and damian who has reverted back, in many ways. Jon is what 14 and damian is 13.so it should continue in the main line.if jon personality is not that much changed then the books would be alright. Bendis's run does not have to limit that.

  2. #4697
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Jon and Damian are literally and figuratively running around in circles. Because of having it be in this limited time frame it has become directionless filler.
    Tomasi seems to be writing the story he wants to write. I haven't heard of any editorial edict that stops him from using Superman, Lois, Batman, or Alfred. That's the point of it being set in the past.

    The New 52 Superman was in a similar position for a while. Action Comics was set in the past of the Superman and all the other books, but, and this is even after the first arc origin, it made use of major characters like Lois and Jimmy. It stayed in Metropolis. It added in new characters like Lois' metahuman niece, the Phantom King, Mrs. N, and Vyn.

    Tomasi, as a writer, seems like he just wants them out in space having wacky adventures all to themselves. They may not be your cup of tea, and that's perfectly fine, but saying he HAS TO write the book the way he currently is specifically because it's set in the past doesn't seem to be the case.

    You know what's kind of funny though? A whole lot of people wanted to have one of the Superman books set in the past specifically because the liked having the younger, less powerful t-shirt and jeans Superman.
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  3. #4698
    Incredible Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    Tomasi seems to be writing the story he wants to write. I haven't heard of any editorial edict that stops him from using Superman, Lois, Batman, or Alfred. That's the point of it being set in the past.

    The New 52 Superman was in a similar position for a while. Action Comics was set in the past of the Superman and all the other books, but, and this is even after the first arc origin, it made use of major characters like Lois and Jimmy. It stayed in Metropolis. It added in new characters like Lois' metahuman niece, the Phantom King, Mrs. N, and Vyn.

    Tomasi, as a writer, seems like he just wants them out in space having wacky adventures all to themselves. They may not be your cup of tea, and that's perfectly fine, but saying he HAS TO write the book the way he currently is specifically because it's set in the past doesn't seem to be the case.

    You know what's kind of funny though? A whole lot of people wanted to have one of the Superman books set in the past specifically because the liked having the younger, less powerful t-shirt and jeans Superman.
    But a hoodie isn't a t-shirt. Checkmate.

  4. #4699

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    Tomasi seems to be writing the story he wants to write. I haven't heard of any editorial edict that stops him from using Superman, Lois, Batman, or Alfred. That's the point of it being set in the past.

    The New 52 Superman was in a similar position for a while. Action Comics was set in the past of the Superman and all the other books, but, and this is even after the first arc origin, it made use of major characters like Lois and Jimmy. It stayed in Metropolis. It added in new characters like Lois' metahuman niece, the Phantom King, Mrs. N, and Vyn.

    Tomasi, as a writer, seems like he just wants them out in space having wacky adventures all to themselves. They may not be your cup of tea, and that's perfectly fine, but saying he HAS TO write the book the way he currently is specifically because it's set in the past doesn't seem to be the case.

    You know what's kind of funny though? A whole lot of people wanted to have one of the Superman books set in the past specifically because the liked having the younger, less powerful t-shirt and jeans Superman.
    Dude, it can easily be speculated.he had to cut short his school direction. I am fine with jon and damian having space adventures. But this feels very uninspired. It is like he did not have a plan for it. Sure, he might have had plans for the kid verison of legion of doom to appear, later.but i don't think this is the way he wanted it. But it might get better since Lobo might be making an appearance. They said something about a teen lantern.the alien monkey was cool. I still don't know who the hell is tommy tomorrow of the Planeteers is supposed to be. And tomasi seems to have gotten time to plan for a big finale.

    As i said earlier, it is like episode of old scooby do and flintstones, the guys keep running around and then gets captured. Rinse and repeat. Even that is getting boring and formulaic.

    Almost every issue of the previous supersons run had superman, batman, alfred and lois. Even talia made an appearance. Jon and damian even saved justice league. But now it is completely isolated. The book is carried by the dynamics between the leads alone. Alfred's sass in the books were legendary. Then again alfred already is legendary.

    And from reddit, i heard someone mention when they met tomasi. he said to them that tomasi had to cut short his plans with jon and even superman. And he was not too happy about it. This is pure "i know a guy who knows " info. So, take it however you please. It is not reliable.

  5. #4700
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Dude, it can easily be speculated.he had to cut short his school direction.
    Cut short? He has a book he can easily continue that direction in right now, but he decided not to, and there's no evidence that says he couldn't have.

    But this feels very uninspired. It is like he did not have a plan for it.
    The that's an issue you have with his actual writing.

    Sure, he might have had plans for the kid verison of legion of doom to appear, later.
    You simply don't know that for sure. Blaming another creator for something that you can only just speculate (with no official statement) at best doesn't seem fair.

    but i don't think this is the way he wanted it.
    "think" being the key word.

    As i said earlier, it is like episode of old scooby do and flintstones, the guys keep running around and then gets captured. Rinse and repeat. Even that is getting boring and formulaic.
    That's on the writer and how they've paced out their story, and your personal taste. It doesn't have to be some conspiracy.

    The book is carried by the dynamics between the leads alone.
    have you ever stopped to think that this is Tomasi's intention, and you're simply just not enjoying how he's going about it?

    And from reddit, i heard someone mention when they met tomasi. he said to them that tomasi had to cut short his plans with jon and even superman. And he was not too happy about it. This is pure "i know a guy who knows " info. So, take it however you please. It is not reliable.
    Understood. I didn't plan on taking some rando from reddit as any sort of evidence of anything. He may very well just be someone upset over the changes to the Superman books, and decided to spread a rumor to spite them.
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  6. #4701

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    Cut short? He has a book he can easily continue that direction in right now, but he decided not to, and there's no evidence that says he couldn't have.



    The that's an issue you have with his actual writing.



    You simply don't know that for sure. Blaming another creator for something that you can only just speculate (with no official statement) at best doesn't seem fair.



    "think" being the key word.



    That's on the writer and how they've paced out their story, and your personal taste. It doesn't have to be some conspiracy.



    have you ever stopped to think that this is Tomasi's intention, and you're simply just not enjoying how he's going about it?



    Understood. I didn't plan on taking some rando from reddit as any sort of evidence of anything. He may very well just be someone upset over the changes to the Superman books, and decided to spread a rumor to spite them.
    I am not blaming Bendis for anything.I like a lot what bendis does with clark, as individual isolated character. It may not seem like it but i do. Otherwise, i won't be sticking around,would have dropped the books.His voice for Clark is great. His world building is great. But, i do however have issues with his plans for Jon and characterisation of Clois as couple and parents. That is the only issue, i have.

    but i do however hold DC management, responsibile for the mismanagement of the supersons book.I don't know, i could be wrong. But that is just the way i feel, not entirely rational i know. When i read the two runs of supersons there is a huge difference.it feels like tomasi can't touch superman, batman or any of the other jon and damian's support characters.So,characters have to be sent to space. I mean space adventure was not something that the old supersons was building towards. Tomasi was setting his toys in place for schools and earth based adventures. Suddenly, they are in space with out of direction and lost both literally and figuratively.
    I am not conspiracy nut or something. I don't think they have something against jon. I don't believe in any of that myself. It might just be some angry fan. Taking out his frustrations.but yeah! There are a bunch of them in r/dccomics. Then again, every era had it. Strangley enough i did not see much of them in previous era. Except for a guy who liked New 52 superman. I mean, i liked parts of new 52 era.

  7. #4702
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    That's fair. If they choose not to continue with the set up the maxi has going, then the dynamic will have to change. I get the frustration with that potential eventuality. That said I think there's a solid chance they might continue doing just that. If fans aren't really bothered with the idea of when exactly in the timeline these adventures take place and are fine with just a general "some time before Jon left with Jor-El", I think the current SS could continue as is as long as sales are decent enough.
    Even with the Maxi, you can tell Tomasi's hands are somewhat tied. He can't really do much substantial with Jon if the end point has already been decided. As a result, the best the maxi can hope to be is a series of fun adventures, which it often is, but at the same time fans of Super Sons and Jon, in general, can already be justifiably frustrated with the handling of his character in Bendis's run and what it means for a pretty beloved series.
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  8. #4703
    D*mned Prince of Gotham JasonTodd428's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    Even with the Maxi, you can tell Tomasi's hands are somewhat tied. He can't really do much substantial with Jon if the end point has already been decided. As a result, the best the maxi can hope to be is a series of fun adventures, which it often is, but at the same time fans of Super Sons and Jon, in general, can already be justifiably frustrated with the handling of his character in Bendis's run and what it means for a pretty beloved series.
    Yeah, I'm one of those "justifiably frustrated" fans for a myriad of reasons the top two of which are:

    1. I literally can't stand it when writers just up and decide to age up a character and, no, the reason for it doesn't really matter to me nor does the outcome of it. (I also can't stand it when they de-age them but that's another kettle of fish.) I find it to be lazy writing because to me it always comes off as the writer being to lazy to properly and naturally develop a child character into a teen. I feel something is lost in the transition whenever a writer does so and that a lot of potential development and stories are lost as a result.

    2. I've never been happy with the whole Jon is space with Jor-el scenario because Jor-El is just not a trustworthy person in my mind and the fact that Lois has allowed him to remain with his "crazy" grandfather alone only makes my feelings about the whole shebang worse. I've still not seen any reason to trust Jor-El with Jon and Bendis certainly hasn't really given readers a reason for trusting the guy either.

    I gave Bendis's Superman a fair shake and even though I am really enjoying his Action Comics it just wasn't working out for me so this isn't a dig at Bendis or his writing. This is just me not liking something because I simply don't like it.
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  9. #4704
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    Quote Originally Posted by JasonTodd428 View Post
    Yeah, I'm one of those "justifiably frustrated" fans for a myriad of reasons the top two of which are:

    1. I literally can't stand it when writers just up and decide to age up a character and, no, the reason for it doesn't really matter to me nor does the outcome of it. (I also can't stand it when they de-age them but that's another kettle of fish.) I find it to be lazy writing because to me it always comes off as the writer being to lazy to properly and naturally develop a child character into a teen. I feel something is lost in the transition whenever a writer does so and that a lot of potential development and stories are lost as a result.

    2. I've never been happy with the whole Jon is space with Jor-el scenario because Jor-El is just not a trustworthy person in my mind and the fact that Lois has allowed him to remain with his "crazy" grandfather alone only makes my feelings about the whole shebang worse. I've still not seen any reason to trust Jor-El with Jon and Bendis certainly hasn't really given readers a reason for trusting the guy either.

    I gave Bendis's Superman a fair shake and even though I am really enjoying his Action Comics it just wasn't working out for me so this isn't a dig at Bendis or his writing. This is just me not liking something because I simply don't like it.
    Completely in agreement. Aging characters up a number of years suddenly in generally a really lazy way to go. I can't really think of a time where its been satisfying. The alternative where characters naturally age over a long period of time (as happened with Dick, Roy, Wally and the like) has generally worked a lot better. I want more of that. That actually feels earned.
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  10. #4705
    Astonishing Member Soubhagya's Avatar
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    I don't think its lazy writing in this case. Its not that DC had no ideas about what to do with Jon. Supersons was fairly successful. There was a fair chance he would join Teen Titans.

    Bendis in his interviews conveys an image that he is putting considerable thought and effort. The analogy of a kid coming back from vacation and changing much interim, was a good idea on paper. If superheroics has some grounding in ordinary life it can work really well. Just like the quote of Morrison about Superman being an ordinary person on a John Bunyan scale.

    Its also something novel. If you are committed to the family setting there is no fault in trying out different things. This one looks like Bendis is drawing something from his own experience. If so this can turn out to be gold.

    Of course, this can turn out to be trash or possibly mediocre. If so, i would be frustrated. For now i am anxious and very interested.


    And Lois leaving Jon with Jor-El is not seen on page yet. I think Jor-El earned her trust during the adventures. If this idea is not properly conveyed it would seem irresponsible on the part of Lois.
    Last edited by Soubhagya; 01-11-2019 at 10:12 PM.

  11. #4706
    Incredible Member Yoda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soubhagya View Post
    Its also something novel. If you are committed to the family setting there is no fault in trying out different things. This one looks like Bendis is drawing something from his own experience. If so this can turn out to be gold.

    Of course, this can turn out to be trash or possibly mediocre. If so, i would be frustrated. For now i am anxious and very interested.

    And Lois leaving Jon with Jor-El is not seen on page yet. I think Jor-El earned her trust during the adventures. If this idea is not properly conveyed it would seem irresponsible on the part of Lois.
    If you like the family status quo at all, I think you have to recognize that they are going to have to change it up every once in a while. Keeping the relationships intact while altering the surface level structure is not a bad thing. But it all comes down to the execution. Bendis has a ton of good ideas in both Action and Superman, but whether he actually executes them well remains to be seen. The Invisible Mafia is probably one of his best and appears to be working out well. Rogal Zaar is middling so far, but that is on the decompression I think more than anything else. After 18 issues dealing with that mystery, the biggest plot revelations have come in Supergirl. And while Bendis has touched on thematic issues, the overall plot there it seems to have barely moved. The next 3 or more issues are going to be extremely important backfill, but hopefully Jor El ends up moving the overall Zaar plot forward.

    Importantly, I don't think Bendis is out to make Jor El a villian. So I don't think we're going to see Lois be to far off with deciding to leave Jon with him, although it obviously will turn out to be a mistake. Bendis has said she's not perfect in her actions, so I expect we're going to see some sort of misjudgment on her part. I think Jor El is likely going to be shown as overextending himself with the best, if misguided, intentions. For example, the "war" that's been teased in the solicits, I expect to be a mirror on how Superman could insert himself into global political events but chooses not to. Jor El and Jon may see an unjust war and get involved to try to stop it but it goes wrong. Jor El won't have a nefarious or villainous motive ala Mr. Oz, but rather a more proactive or assertive position to juxtapose it to Clark's somewhat detached or reactive posture. Bendis has said the whole arc is about looking at Superman's role in the world and what actions he has to choose to take as a hero. Look at the real cover of Superman 7, you have Lois, Jor, and Jon surrounded by what appears to be refugees or at least a collection of poor aliens looking for help. Lois looks upset or unnerved, Jon's just excited to be off planet, and Jor El is standing there with a look of arrogance or importance on his face. Like he's there to do good and expects to be appreciated for it. I don't expect Lois' secret to be revealed, it seems likely that she'll come away with a sense that both she and Clark can be doing more to help people than they are now. Hence her newfound burning desire to write and tell truth to power.

  12. #4707
    Astonishing Member Darkspellmaster's Avatar
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    Right now my main concern comes from how DC intends to use Jon outside of comics. Which versions will we get? We've seen Damian in at least a few versions out there. Jon has none, and I really want him to have a better chance than Chris with sticking around.

    The reasons that Conner, Tim, Cassie, Dick, Steph, Cass, etc. Even Jason sticks around because they could hrow with the kids reading them. Jon needs this, and it's the best way to keep him around by allowing him to grow normal, or as normal as a super can, and by having him have his own story told. Not connected to Clark and propping him up, but having a chance to get people to enjoy him as his own character.

    Tim and Kon had their own books. If Bendis gives him one where we get more of a connection to his own supporting cast, and maybe, eventually we get a second or different YK like book for him and Damian, it could work. But we need to see him grow up. Not rush to teenhood.

  13. #4708
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    The question at this point is more if DC intends to use him outside the comics, as opposed to how. Really the only built in opportunity they have right now is the CW verse and I'm still not convinced that's going anywhere or was even ever intended to. And its too early to tell if there's any room for him in a post-Death/Reign AU. Especially if their aim is to focus on another League member after this, which I believe will be the case. It could be a while before the focus will again be on Superman to the degree of telling the tale necessary to bring him in, if they were to choose to not do it organically like the comics.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 01-12-2019 at 03:19 PM.
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  14. #4709
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkspellmaster View Post
    Right now my main concern comes from how DC intends to use Jon outside of comics. Which versions will we get? We've seen Damian in at least a few versions out there. Jon has none, and I really want him to have a better chance than Chris with sticking around.

    The reasons that Conner, Tim, Cassie, Dick, Steph, Cass, etc. Even Jason sticks around because they could hrow with the kids reading them. Jon needs this, and it's the best way to keep him around by allowing him to grow normal, or as normal as a super can, and by having him have his own story told. Not connected to Clark and propping him up, but having a chance to get people to enjoy him as his own character.

    Tim and Kon had their own books. If Bendis gives him one where we get more of a connection to his own supporting cast, and maybe, eventually we get a second or different YK like book for him and Damian, it could work. But we need to see him grow up. Not rush to teenhood.
    Frankly, the fact that DC isn't trying to make a Super Sons animated series shocks me. That seems like such an easy way to go. It's certainly a show I would have loved as a kid.

    I should also mention the timing of making Jon a teen perplexes me. Conner is coming back, and teenage characters are getting a huge push. Does it really make sense to turn Jon into another teen? Aren't we already oversaturated with teen characters?
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  15. #4710
    Incredible Member Yoda's Avatar
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    I think they expect the primary vehicle to be the Zoom imprint books. If that takes off at the middle school book fair level, which I think it's being offered through Scholastic as well, they'll get more push in the animated area ala DC Super Hero Girls. Having a slightly older Jon in the comics likely isn't seen as a big negative there. They are pushing a Mera tween book pretty heavily and Mera is older in both the comics and movies.

    A Jon character in the CW verse could also be a fill in in a few years once Flash or Supergirl run their course.

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