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  1. #7396
    Mighty Member Yoda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordUltimus View Post
    Depends on how long he's the writer. He was the writer for Ultimate Spider-Man for, what, ten years?
    I think it was closer to 16 or 17 over the course of the initial Ultimate Spider-Man through Mile's books.

  2. #7397
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    YOOOOOO!!! The color version of the second cover for issue 3 is out, and good Lord is it fire!! I'm all the way into Jon's new look for the Legion. I hope the addition of the black/dark blue stays because that's too damn strong, man.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/B3zZXz3p...d=s1mpdr8ome7v
    Last edited by Superlad93; 10-19-2019 at 08:50 AM.
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  3. #7398
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    Except, Jon isn't a kid anymore, and may be having yet another age up within the next year or so. What's more, D.C. was even pitched an animated series of the Super Sons, but it was rejected.

    So I don't see how D.C. is trying to market him to kids, in the comics at least.
    No, they'll push young Jon in the YA books and the Ink imprint (or Zoom or whatever they're calling it now) and maybe a cartoon or something, but the audience for the mainline floppies is very different, and I'd bet DC doesn't feel like there's much need to push young Jon in the direct market, given that his role in the main titles hasn't made much impact on sales and the last Super Sons mini did so poorly. He has fans, but they can get their young Jon fix in other products.

    If other adaptations of Jon really take off, and he gets a solid, popular role in something like the YJ cartoon, maybe DC will change their minds. But it looks like they feel young Jon has potential in other media but not a ton in the main line. So that means they can do just about anything with him in the prime DCU without fear.
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  4. #7399
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    No, they'll push young Jon in the YA books and the Ink imprint (or Zoom or whatever they're calling it now) and maybe a cartoon or something, but the audience for the mainline floppies is very different, and I'd bet DC doesn't feel like there's much need to push young Jon in the direct market, given that his role in the main titles hasn't made much impact on sales and the last Super Sons mini did so poorly. He has fans, but they can get their young Jon fix in other products.

    If other adaptations of Jon really take off, and he gets a solid, popular role in something like the YJ cartoon, maybe DC will change their minds. But it looks like they feel young Jon has potential in other media but not a ton in the main line. So that means they can do just about anything with him in the prime DCU without fear.
    It’s a major miscalculation on DC’s part. They want to grow their monthly comics brand, they should be trying to get the kid market in there. Ink and Zoom are great, but they aren’t going to help boost the monthlies. Character like Jon Kent would have been a great asset for this. You hear lots of tales from parents who say Super Sons brought their kids into Superhero comics, only for them to become disinterested with what Bendis has done to Jon. DC is shooting themselves in the foot here.

    And I wish people would stop selling this nonsense that the last mini-series was a failure. It wasn’t promoted, there were no variant covers, and it still did better than a number of still continuing DC titles. Plus, it’s pretty clear DC was trying to quietly kill the title. Even so, the trade sales have been great. The mini-series did as well as could have been expected, given the circumstances.
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  5. #7400
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    It’s a major miscalculation on DC’s part. They want to grow their monthly comics brand, they should be trying to get the kid market in there. Ink and Zoom are great, but they aren’t going to help boost the monthlies.
    I dont think the monthlies are the main concern anymore. The direct market is dying, and has been for years and years. All effort to save it either ends in total failure or short-term gains that disappear within a few years (like the New52, which pulled the whole industry out of a years-long nosedive, but settled back to the usual decline within three years).

    I think DC is looking at other distribution methods and putting most of their effort into breaking into those. So if the monthlies lose out on a handful of new readers, they're not gonna care, as long as they can break big in the YA genre, or bookstore OGN's, or digital, or whatever.
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  6. #7401
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    I dont think the monthlies are the main concern anymore. The direct market is dying, and has been for years and years. All effort to save it either ends in total failure or short-term gains that disappear within a few years (like the New52, which pulled the whole industry out of a years-long nosedive, but settled back to the usual decline within three years).

    I think DC is looking at other distribution methods and putting most of their effort into breaking into those. So if the monthlies lose out on a handful of new readers, they're not gonna care, as long as they can break big in the YA genre, or bookstore OGN's, or digital, or whatever.
    I don’t agree. If other modes of distribution were DC’s main concern, they’d be promoting it more than they do the monthlies. That isn’t what’s happening. Promotion and advertising has mostly been centered around Bendis and his titles.
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  7. #7402
    Mighty Member Yoda's Avatar
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    They are promoting the young adult line pretty heavily. I'm pretty sure they have had Raven advertisements out on like bus stops and things. And they are being promoted in the publishing circles. The Bendis is Coming stuff was almost two years ago as well, these are more recent changes I think.

    Plus, they aren't going to give up on the direct market, I think they finally realized that there are a lot more new readers out there interested in the young adult and tween books formats. I mean, Dog Man had like a 5 million copy initial print run. Guts something like one million. That's like 2 years worth of sales for the direct market. And these books will be in print for a long time.

  8. #7403
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    I don’t agree. If other modes of distribution were DC’s main concern, they’d be promoting it more than they do the monthlies. That isn’t what’s happening. Promotion and advertising has mostly been centered around Bendis and his titles.
    On top of what Yoda said, this also appears to be a fairly recent decision. I mean, DC has been poking at those other distribution models for years now, but if this is indeed a new, heavy push, it's a fairly new direction. The advertising is gonna need a minute to catch up to that.

    And like Yoda said, this stuff *is* getting promoted a lot. Just not in the same circles the direct market readers are accustomed to.
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  9. #7404
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    YOOOOOO!!! The color version of the second cover for issue 3 is out, and good Lord is it fire!! I'm all the way into Jon's new look for the Legion. I hope the addition of the black/dark blue stays because that's too damn strong, man.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/B3zZXz3p...d=s1mpdr8ome7v
    I'm still not digging all the costumes but I think I like how Cheung draws them better then Sook.

  10. #7405
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    They are promoting the young adult line pretty heavily. I'm pretty sure they have had Raven advertisements out on like bus stops and things. And they are being promoted in the publishing circles. The Bendis is Coming stuff was almost two years ago as well, these are more recent changes I think.

    Plus, they aren't going to give up on the direct market, I think they finally realized that there are a lot more new readers out there interested in the young adult and tween books formats. I mean, Dog Man had like a 5 million copy initial print run. Guts something like one million. That's like 2 years worth of sales for the direct market. And these books will be in print for a long time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    On top of what Yoda said, this also appears to be a fairly recent decision. I mean, DC has been poking at those other distribution models for years now, but if this is indeed a new, heavy push, it's a fairly new direction. The advertising is gonna need a minute to catch up to that.

    And like Yoda said, this stuff *is* getting promoted a lot. Just not in the same circles the direct market readers are accustomed to.
    I'm not talking about the Bendis is Coming stuff from 2 years ago. I'm talking about the New York Times article focusing on Superman 18. I'm talking about his visit to Late Night with Seth Meyers. The heavy Bendis-centric promotion is continuing (and the Batman Title seems to get a fair bit as well). This stuff is pretty damn visible and goes well beyond the direct market.
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  11. #7406
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    I'm not talking about the Bendis is Coming stuff from 2 years ago. I'm talking about the New York Times article focusing on Superman 18. I'm talking about his visit to Late Night with Seth Meyers. The heavy Bendis-centric promotion is continuing (and the Batman Title seems to get a fair bit as well). This stuff is pretty damn visible and goes well beyond the direct market.
    Ah, okay. Hell, that's easy to answer.

    First off, it doesnt look like DC is giving up completely on the direct market. They need us to keep buying while they find new distribution avenues that they can sustain themselves on. When/if they find those, you can bet the DM will see a lot less effort. I'd say right now they're trying to get one foot into other distributions without taking the other foot out of the DM. Which is only wise, given their past failures to break into new markets. They still need us.....for now.

    And yes this goes beyond the direct market; Bendis' books are sold in trade and digital too. And just because DC is putting some marketing behind the regular books doesn't mean they're not pushing these other distributions; just look at the effort they're putting into the YA books.

    This isn't an either-or thing. DC can, and is, still putting in some work on the DM. But they're also trying to branch out into healthier, more successful markets too. They're trying to build multi-market appeal; you don't do that by dropping the market you're already in, you do that by branching out into new ones in addition to what you've already got. That way, when the DM does finally die (which will still be years from now) the company has only lost one small part of its distribution base.
    Last edited by Ascended; 10-19-2019 at 01:17 PM.
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  12. #7407
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Ah, okay. Hell, that's easy to answer.

    First off, it doesnt look like DC is giving up completely on the direct market. They need us to keep buying while they find new distribution avenues that they can sustain themselves on. When/if they find those, you can bet the DM will see a lot less effort. I'd say right now they're trying to get one foot into other distributions without taking the other foot out of the DM. Which is only wise, given their past failures to break into new markets. They still need us.....for now.

    And yes this goes beyond the direct market; Bendis' books are sold in trade and digital too. And just because DC is putting some marketing behind the regular books doesn't mean they're not pushing these other distributions; just look at the effort they're putting into the YA books.

    This isn't an either-or thing. DC can, and is, still putting in some work on the DM. But they're also trying to branch out into healthier, more successful markets too. They're trying to build multi-market appeal; you don't do that by dropping the market you're already in, you do that by branching out into new ones in addition to what you've already got. That way, when the DM does finally die (which will still be years from now) the company has only lost one small part of its distribution base.
    That's the point. If it isn't an either-or thing, then DC might as well explore new avenues of appealing to a wider range of people within the direct market too. That includes kids. Super Sons books are sold in digital and trade as well. Hell, the Super Sons Omnibus apparently was very successful and sold out pretty quick. Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur has a following. There is a market out there for these kinds of books, and it doesn't make sense for DC not to take advantage.
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  13. #7408
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    That's the point. If it isn't an either-or thing, then DC might as well explore new avenues of appealing to a wider range of people within the direct market too. That includes kids. Super Sons books are sold in digital and trade as well. Hell, the Super Sons Omnibus apparently was very successful and sold out pretty quick. Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur has a following. There is a market out there for these kinds of books, and it doesn't make sense for DC not to take advantage.
    DC has tried to bring new readers into the direct market. So has everyone else. It doesn't work. Not to the degree it needs to. You think publishers haven't been trying this for decades, ever since the industry began to decline and they got trapped by the Diamond deal? Of course they have. Every damn year. Every possible gimmick and incentive and imprint and trick you can think of. It's been tried, and the DM has failed to bear fruit. Its not a growth industry, it's a dying one. So DC is now looking at other avenues to get their IP's out, and finally might maybe be taking that effort as the serious matter it is. They should've gotten serious about this fifteen years ago, if not twenty.

    Yes, there absolutely is a market for kid-oriented books. That market isn't the DM. Which is why Moon Girl's best sales come from Scholastic book orders, the Super Sons omnibus sold so well in book stores, and all those YA novels and OGN's sell well. And Captain Marvel, Spider-Gwen, Squirrel Girl, and just about all those other hot new characters (well, Carol's not new but you get my drift) can't move a damn thing in the DM but do great in other formats. Kids aren't going to the comic shops. They're simply not.

    The DM is still publishers' bread and butter. Not because it works, but because it's the only distribution and audience they've got. So no, it can't be abandoned until they're solidly entrenched in other markets. But the odds of the DM suddenly becoming healthy again? It's not happening man.
    Last edited by Ascended; 10-19-2019 at 06:09 PM.
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  14. #7409
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    YOOOOOO!!! The color version of the second cover for issue 3 is out, and good Lord is it fire!! I'm all the way into Jon's new look for the Legion. I hope the addition of the black/dark blue stays because that's too damn strong, man.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/B3zZXz3p...d=s1mpdr8ome7v
    Jon having new52-esque costume and sheild. I can safely say jon is replacing clark. I guess, jon is the new "man of tomorrow".

  15. #7410
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Even among New 52 Superman fans, the costume itself isn't exactly beloved (I like it more than most despite not nearly perfect, but even that much is not a usual opinion). And this is even more bulky. Either way its funny if DC thinks the design will win over n52 fans or something. We liked a younger Superman, not some random young pretender. Its almost comical how bad they are at reading the room in nearly all facets of a diverse audience.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 10-19-2019 at 07:20 PM.
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