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  1. #7486
    Spectacular Member Stick Figure's Avatar
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    Man of Steel was what first got me interested in Superman. Justice League absolutely killed me. It was a cartoon.

  2. #7487
    Astonishing Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stick Figure View Post
    Man of Steel was what first got me interested in Superman. Justice League absolutely killed me. It was a cartoon.
    Odd. Man of Steel killed my interest in Superman until Rebirth hit comics (went back and read Convergence after). I enjoyed the Justice League version better, once he got over the whole being dead thing.

  3. #7488
    Incredible Member Blue22's Avatar
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    I hated man of Steel but Cavil's portrayal of Superman wasn't what killed it for me...it was everyone else.

    I actually thought Henry did a decent job in spite of the shit he was given to work with for three movies.

  4. #7489
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Liked MOS, hated BvS, enjoyed some of Superman's stuff in JL only because it was a refresher after him getting jobbed so bad in the previous film. But it still wasn't a good movie.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "Now why don't we step up here and everybody get stepped up, and let's get some stepped up personal space up in this place." - Phillip Jacobs

  5. #7490
    Astonishing Member Dispenser Of Truth's Avatar
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    The major points of the Word Balloon cast:

    * There'll be a Superman: Villains oneshot to go with Superman: Heroes, that'll have Fraction and Rucka involved too. The two of them are going to be writing a much larger percentage of those then they did Leviathan Rising, with a mandate from Bendis of 'I already get to write Superman all the time, so if you have something you want to say with him right now this is the place for it'.

    * He talked about how he sees this as continuing on the growth past the traditional Superman status quo kicked off by Jurgens and Rebirth.

    * "I wrote down, I think I even talked in interviews, how it always feels like Clark is lying a little bit. Right? To protect something, and we all do it, and we all respect it, and we identify with it...but we're now in a different world. And he's a different man who's been through different things. We talk about it in the script that the young man who grew up and came to Metropolis to make his way, versus the father and husband and superhero icon is a different person, with different responsibilities to himself and to the world. And changes happened in both his relationships with his father and his son, and those are massive things...that makes a person step back and think about who they are and what they're proud of and what they want to represent in the world, and I think a lot of people can understand that truth a little bit. 'Wait, I'm not the same person I was, and that choice I made back then may not be the right choice for me now.'"

    * He's surprised they're letting him do it when he's pitching it as a forever thing.

    * His response to people saying they've already done this: "Yeah, they did it on every cover of every Superman comic from the 1950s to 1972! So yes, I know! People think I don't know that? And I know that Lois had outed him. This is a very different story."

    * His Daredevil was about Matt being outed after years of dancing on the edge and a tumble basically being inevitable; Superman by contrast is owning this as a choice after a life of major decisions being as Bendis sees it essentially being thrust upon him.

    * Superman delivers a big speech on this, basically Clark making the case for this to the DCU.

    * Whether this paints a target on the backs of his supporting cast was the first thing he was asked upon pitching it, and the story addresses that; he also notes that every supervillain in the world already knew that everyone at the Daily Planet was close to Superman, that really being far more widely-known public knowledge than any association of theirs with Kent.

    * Talking with people made him realize just how much the very concept of the secret identity has fallen out of the pop culture discussion thanks to the MCU, and how the primary equivalent cultural association these days is anonymous folks online where that often manifests in far more troubling ways (not that he considers that at all an equivalent to superhero secret identities, but that it's a huge association now).

    * As Superman's older and has more of a sense of how people are reacting to him - both as a matter of empathy and as a matter of his super-senses being able to tell if someone's lying - he doesn't need Clark as much anymore to be certain whether a given person is speaking to him as a person rather than essentially the Super-Pope, so he's willing to give up that shield. It may mean losing half the conversations where people will open up to just Clark in a way they wouldn't to Superman, but as he sees it it's more honest this way and he hopes the people he interacts with with feel that honesty and respond in kind.

    * Bendis is less interested in the immediate event-scale shock of the reveal than seeing the consequences of this settling in for everyone involved as the new 'real' as that was what really enamored him when he did this with Daredevil; something huge is doing to go down with Toyman in particular in response to this.

    * The final page of Legion #1 is going to have a reveal relating to the timeline that Bendis basically all but confirms is going to have to do with the new DC history and 5G.

    * First issue of Legion hits the ground running in terms of 'here's the world, here's what the Legion does and what it's fighting for and against, here's the McGuffin', with more space for the characters after the first couple issues.

    * He was blindsided by how much people absolutely hate Mon-El until he was informed it was because of his depiction on Supergirl; Mon-El's a favorite of his and he's really fighting not to lean on him as a favorite of his ala Luke Cage.

    * Everyone's going to have in-universe ID displays that'll help catch Jon (and the readers) up on what their deal is, taken with permission from Fraction's similar character-tagging gimmick in X-Men. Later on they'll fool around and hack each others' tags. Letterer Dave Sharp went through 70+ possible designs for these things given they're going to be everywhere so much of the time.

    * The formation of the United Planets is going to continue to be a huge thing in Superman, and Bendis is getting a kick out of simultaneously telling the stories of its Year One and Year One Thousand.

    * The status of Ma and Pa still can't be brought up until Doomsday Clock's done, nor can he talk at all about the connection between Doomsday Clock's Saturn Girl and the one in Legion.
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  6. #7491
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Whole-heardedly disagree with the idea that because secret I.D.s are largely not a thing now, that Superman should move on from his. Because Superman's is far, far more important than most other characters in the first place. Its just...its just not something I'll come around to. I disagree with the base concept. The Daredevil comparisons fall flat because again, Matt's secret ID never held the importance of the Clark/Superman dichotomy by a long shot. If his life is so different now...honestly I see that as more an indication that they changed too much already as opposed to it being a sign that they need to change more. Is that being more a fan of things staying pat than progression? In a large way yes and I accept that. And hey, as far as I know maybe going my way and making things more like the old days as possible wouldn't save anything either. At this rate I don't know. But I do strongly believe nevertheless that there's such a thing as evolving too far beyond concept of character. I think this is what this initiative is, how it will be received, and what it will eventually go down in history as.

    Calling it now, the final page of Legion #1 is going to be some sort of monument of Jon as the second Superman or something like that confirming that its happening. : puke:
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 10-22-2019 at 04:22 PM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "Now why don't we step up here and everybody get stepped up, and let's get some stepped up personal space up in this place." - Phillip Jacobs

  7. #7492
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    The obvious reason they’re cool with doing this is that... they’ve already undone it once. If it doesn’t work they’ll just undo it again lol. Good that the United Planets will continue to be a big part of upcoming stories, that’s what I want to hear. This is Superman’s Batman Incorporated except unlike Bats he actually succeeds! Suck it Bruce!

  8. #7493
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dispenser Of Truth View Post
    The major points of the Word Balloon cast:

    * There'll be a Superman: Villains oneshot to go with Superman: Heroes, that'll have Fraction and Rucka involved too. The two of them are going to be writing a much larger percentage of those then they did Leviathan Rising, with a mandate from Bendis of 'I already get to write Superman all the time, so if you have something you want to say with him right now this is the place for it'.

    * He talked about how he sees this as continuing on the growth past the traditional Superman status quo kicked off by Jurgens and Rebirth.

    * "I wrote down, I think I even talked in interviews, how it always feels like Clark is lying a little bit. Right? To protect something, and we all do it, and we all respect it, and we identify with it...but we're now in a different world. And he's a different man who's been through different things. We talk about it in the script that the young man who grew up and came to Metropolis to make his way, versus the father and husband and superhero icon is a different person, with different responsibilities to himself and to the world. And changes happened in both his relationships with his father and his son, and those are massive things...that makes a person step back and think about who they are and what they're proud of and what they want to represent in the world, and I think a lot of people can understand that truth a little bit. 'Wait, I'm not the same person I was, and that choice I made back then may not be the right choice for me now.'"

    * He's surprised they're letting him do it when he's pitching it as a forever thing.

    * His response to people saying they've already done this: "Yeah, they did it on every cover of every Superman comic from the 1950s to 1972! So yes, I know! People think I don't know that? And I know that Lois had outed him. This is a very different story."

    * His Daredevil was about Matt being outed after years of dancing on the edge and a tumble basically being inevitable; Superman by contrast is owning this as a choice after a life of major decisions being as Bendis sees it essentially being thrust upon him.

    * Superman delivers a big speech on this, basically Clark making the case for this to the DCU.

    * Whether this paints a target on the backs of his supporting cast was the first thing he was asked upon pitching it, and the story addresses that; he also notes that every supervillain in the world already knew that everyone at the Daily Planet was close to Superman, that really being far more widely-known public knowledge than any association of theirs with Kent.

    * Talking with people made him realize just how much the very concept of the secret identity has fallen out of the pop culture discussion thanks to the MCU, and how the primary equivalent cultural association these days is anonymous folks online where that often manifests in far more troubling ways (not that he considers that at all an equivalent to superhero secret identities, but that it's a huge association now).

    * As Superman's older and has more of a sense of how people are reacting to him - both as a matter of empathy and as a matter of his super-senses being able to tell if someone's lying - he doesn't need Clark as much anymore to be certain whether a given person is speaking to him as a person rather than essentially the Super-Pope, so he's willing to give up that shield. It may mean losing half the conversations where people will open up to just Clark in a way they wouldn't to Superman, but as he sees it it's more honest this way and he hopes the people he interacts with with feel that honesty and respond in kind.

    * Bendis is less interested in the immediate event-scale shock of the reveal than seeing the consequences of this settling in for everyone involved as the new 'real' as that was what really enamored him when he did this with Daredevil; something huge is doing to go down with Toyman in particular in response to this.

    * The final page of Legion #1 is going to have a reveal relating to the timeline that Bendis basically all but confirms is going to have to do with the new DC history and 5G.

    * First issue of Legion hits the ground running in terms of 'here's the world, here's what the Legion does and what it's fighting for and against, here's the McGuffin', with more space for the characters after the first couple issues.

    * He was blindsided by how much people absolutely hate Mon-El until he was informed it was because of his depiction on Supergirl; Mon-El's a favorite of his and he's really fighting not to lean on him as a favorite of his ala Luke Cage.

    * Everyone's going to have in-universe ID displays that'll help catch Jon (and the readers) up on what their deal is, taken with permission from Fraction's similar character-tagging gimmick in X-Men. Later on they'll fool around and hack each others' tags. Letterer Dave Sharp went through 70+ possible designs for these things given they're going to be everywhere so much of the time.

    * The formation of the United Planets is going to continue to be a huge thing in Superman, and Bendis is getting a kick out of simultaneously telling the stories of its Year One and Year One Thousand.

    * The status of Ma and Pa still can't be brought up until Doomsday Clock's done, nor can he talk at all about the connection between Doomsday Clock's Saturn Girl and the one in Legion.
    I guess the real crux is that Bendis prefers relationships where there's openness and honesty instead of lying or subterfuge, which is why he does away with the secret identity concept as much as he does.

    I think the MCU has definitely worked to effectively de-emphasize the secret identity, but Marvel was doing that themselves since Civil War. But then you get into the issue that most Marvel heroes don't tend to interact with civilians or people outside their Superhero lives much since they're basically heroes 24/7. Nobody really has serious dayjobs unless they're rich. Does this mean more 5G heroes will have public identities?

    I might be mis-remembering, but I thought there was a story or somewhere where Clark/Superman thought to himself that he let himself get too closely associated with the Planet. It wasn't Truth, was it?

    I don't like the idea of Superman not needing Clark anymore. It just seems like more reason to phase out Clark and just have him be Superman 24/7, basically. I think the way Clark relates to people or how he uses Clark to relate to others is more complicated then that. But that's just me.

    I'm surprised Mon-El comes off as that hated thanks to the Supergirl show. I mean, I didn't love him, but I liked him enough there...but I think even the actor didn't like his character, so that's probably more damning then anything. I'm surprised Bendis seems to really like him. Mon-El never seemed like a character he'd gravitate towards (then again, neither did Superman).

  9. #7494
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dispenser Of Truth View Post
    * Bendis is less interested in the immediate event-scale shock of the reveal than seeing the consequences of this settling in for everyone involved as the new 'real'
    Good, because that's what I'm interested in.

    I'm too old to give a damn about empty shock value gimmicks. But a real step forward in the lives of these characters is something I'm always interested in seeing.

    Still not sure how it'll play; this is such a critical element of the mythos; almost everything is built on the Clark-Superman dynamic. But as a next, logical, organic step? I can see it.....so bring your A-game, Bendis! You dropped the ball with the UP thing (Jon shouldn't get credit, dammit) but you can make up for it here.
    Higher, Faster, Further....More.

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  10. #7495
    Mighty Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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    Can I get a link to the Word Balloon cast?

  11. #7496
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordUltimus View Post
    Can I get a link to the Word Balloon cast?
    Google "Word Balloon Podcast". It's the first thing that comes up. Bendis is on the show a lot, but this would be the latest episode.

  12. #7497
    Mighty Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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    Thanks.

    10 char.

  13. #7498
    Astonishing Member DragonPiece's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Calling it now, the final page of Legion #1 is going to be some sort of monument of Jon as the second Superman or something like that confirming that its happening. : puke:
    I could see that happening. Man, I really hope Legion actually sells well with how excited Bendis seems to be about it.

  14. #7499
    Spectacular Member Stick Figure's Avatar
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    Bendis nailed it when he talked about how secret identities being out of fashion. The concept is just creepy. A guy wears a costume under regular street clothes and hides a part of himself to all his friends?? That’s just weird. I know it’s been a common part of comics for years but I’d like to see them evolve a bit.

  15. #7500
    Mighty Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stick Figure View Post
    Bendis nailed it when he talked about how secret identities being out of fashion. The concept is just creepy. A guy wears a costume under regular street clothes and hides a part of himself to all his friends?? That’s just weird. I know it’s been a common part of comics for years but I’d like to see them evolve a bit.
    One could argue that the idea of hiding the secret identity to those close to you is outdated, but revealing your identity to the entire world isn't.

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