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  1. #8641
    Astonishing Member Yoda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    But it's often depicted as having a greater effect on him, or at least it's more pronounced. No other hero complains about hating magic or their susceptible to magic as much as Superman does.

    Or maybe it just seems that way because he's so invulnerable to everything else, it just stands out that magic can actually hurt him.
    Yeah, again I've kind think I've always read those comments and complaints as it annoys him that he has this weakness, not that he has any increased susceptibility or sensitivity to it. Where someone like Constantine would have the wards and whatnot to protect himself. Kind of like how Batman is sometimes written as being annoyed by it too.

    Although now that I'm thinking about it, wasn't there a New 52 Batman/Superman story where they walked into a building or something and Clark was affected by the magic but Bruce wasn't?

  2. #8642
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    He feels annoyed cause he feels weak? Well, wait a take it like a champ. Sheesh! The guy who puts himself through lava even though he has no idea if it will kill him or not, gets annoyed at a sting from hocus pocus . Bad portrayal.

  3. #8643
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    Yeah, again I've kind think I've always read those comments and complaints as it annoys him that he has this weakness, not that he has any increased susceptibility or sensitivity to it. Where someone like Constantine would have the wards and whatnot to protect himself. Kind of like how Batman is sometimes written as being annoyed by it too.

    Although now that I'm thinking about it, wasn't there a New 52 Batman/Superman story where they walked into a building or something and Clark was affected by the magic but Bruce wasn't?
    Yep Scott Snyder wrote an issue that tied in to Damian’s death and featured the two teaming up. He treated magic like Kryptonite for Superman, the mere presence of it sickened him. That was rather stupid and no one has ever done anything else like that since.

  4. #8644
    Astonishing Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    But it's often depicted as having a greater effect on him, or at least it's more pronounced. No other hero complains about hating magic or their susceptible to magic as much as Superman does.

    Or maybe it just seems that way because he's so invulnerable to everything else, it just stands out that magic can actually hurt him.
    This. My personal headcanon is that it's more disbelief than actual effect. Like "holy smokes, Superman got wrecked" because, well, he's Superman. He's the bar we use to measure toughness.

    Whenever he's written as being especially susceptible to it (why? What about a Kryptonian makes them super weak to someone having root access to the DCU's source code but doesn't harm others the same way?) I just assume the writer isn't a big Superman fan and is just drinking the Cultural Osmosis Kool-Aid.
    Last edited by Robanker; 05-27-2020 at 03:28 AM.

  5. #8645
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    But it's often depicted as having a greater effect on him, or at least it's more pronounced. No other hero complains about hating magic or their susceptible to magic as much as Superman does.

    Or maybe it just seems that way because he's so invulnerable to everything else, it just stands out that magic can actually hurt him.
    No, he's definitely written sometimes as being more vulnerable to magic than the average guy. It doesn't just seem that way, it *is* that way.....depending on the writer at least, the good ones know better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Yep Scott Snyder wrote an issue that tied in to Damian’s death and featured the two teaming up. He treated magic like Kryptonite for Superman, the mere presence of it sickened him. That was rather stupid and no one has ever done anything else like that since.
    Snyder is almost as bad at writing Clark as Johns is. I thought Clark was okay in JL, but all the other times I've seen Snyder write Clark it's awful.
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  6. #8646
    Father Son Kamehameha < Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    In fairness to Snyder I'd imagine that has everything to do with how he's seen it treated. Like how he also writes as though Mxy's name backwards is Kryptonite. I imagine it makes it easier to juggle characters he doesn't normally write, boiling down like that
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  7. #8647
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    No, he's definitely written sometimes as being more vulnerable to magic than the average guy. It doesn't just seem that way, it *is* that way.....depending on the writer at least, the good ones know better.



    Snyder is almost as bad at writing Clark as Johns is. I thought Clark was okay in JL, but all the other times I've seen Snyder write Clark it's awful.
    I liked Unchained but otherwise yeah his Supes is just ok at best. Reminds me of how Morrison wrote him in JLA (no surprise there given Snyder’s a Morrison fanboy).

  8. #8648
    Incredible Member Gaius's Avatar
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    I always took the “magic as a weakness” means that he has no natural defense against it and so that means just about everyone in DC has a weakness to magic. So saying Batman has a weakness to magic is as valid.

  9. #8649
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    I dunno, the reason I worry is because like Ascended said, there have been plenty of instances where its not just treated as something he's not immune to. Its something he's especially vulnerable against even compared to others who aren't immune. And when Bendis describes it as his second Kryptonite, its hard not to assume he means he's going at it with a very similar mindset. He's generally helpless against Kryptonite. His defense is get away from it or be suited up in lead. If there's a comparison to be drawn then it would be that he's helpless against magic. And that's just ridiculous, hence my annoyance with the statement. Could always turn out differently but the way its worded does not make me optimistic.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 05-27-2020 at 12:27 PM.
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  10. #8650
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    I always took the “magic as a weakness” means that he has no natural defense against it and so that means just about everyone in DC has a weakness to magic. So saying Batman has a weakness to magic is as valid.
    That's how it *should* be written. And once in a while that's how it is actually written. But most of the time, it's like that example someone mentioned upthread where just having magic in the air makes Clark itchy and weak, while other people like Bruce don't even notice it.

    If Clark gets hit by a magic blast and the same blast hits Batman or Flash, it should hurt all of them equally. But a lot of writers will have it take Clark down for the count while the other guys are only bruised.

    It'd be one thing if Clark being weak to magic made any sense, but as far as I know there's never even really been a reason behind it at all. Best we've gotten is some vague tripe about Kryptonians being so into science they just can't wrap their heads around magic, or some such foolishness.
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  11. #8651
    Incredible Member Lvenger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Yep Scott Snyder wrote an issue that tied in to Damian’s death and featured the two teaming up. He treated magic like Kryptonite for Superman, the mere presence of it sickened him. That was rather stupid and no one has ever done anything else like that since.
    I think you're referring to Batman #20. in which case the story was a backup written by James Tynion. He went as far to say Superman being in the presence of magic was killing him, the same as Kryptonite. It was a dumb interpretation of Superman's vulnerability to magic.

  12. #8652
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Snyder writes a damn good jon kent, i know that much.

  13. #8653
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    Yeah, Snyder's work with Superman in Justice League was pretty great. The Sixth Dimension was the best arc of the run.
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  14. #8654
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Snyder writes a damn good jon kent, i know that much.
    He does. Would have loved to see more Super Sons garage band.

  15. #8655
    Fantastic Member MeGrimlock420's Avatar
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