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  1. #6421
    Astonishing Member DragonPiece's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Feel like now is a good time to reiterate: If you don’t like this there’s a very good chance the stuff with Jon will get undone at the end of Bendis’ time on the Superbooks. He’s good at putting the toys back in the toybox, and I would not be surprised to see him end his LoSH run with them rescuing “past Jon” from the volcano so he can go be with his family while future grown up Jon stays with the Legion full time.

    “But wait that doesn’t make sense” well yeah but it’s Bendis lol. He has no problem ignoring the logic of his own plots to do clean up.
    I'd think that depends on how much development he does with teen jon in the legion. If by the end of that run, Jon has a whole relationship and has dealt with a lot of tragic events, it'd be weird if he became a kid again..

  2. #6422
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonPiece View Post
    I'd think that depends on how much development he does with teen jon in the legion. If by the end of that run, Jon has a whole relationship and has dealt with a lot of tragic events, it'd be weird if he became a kid again..
    It’d be weird for sure, just like how what happened with Chris was weird. But if they want kid Jon back then they’ll deage teen Jon, weirdness be damned. My hypothesis was more that teen Jon and the LOSH would rescue a younger version of himself that was still trapped in the volcano on Earth 3. Don’t ask me to explain it time travel makes my head hurt lol, just had a premonition of how they could have young Jon and teen Jon.

  3. #6423
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    I refuse to support legion of superheoes

  4. #6424
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    One day Jon leaves home as a 17 year old and returns home as 13 year because he got caught in the crossfire of some mad scientist who created a way to de-age people. Maybe the lab/equipment/notes necessary to undo it get destroyed or what they do find is simply nonsense that nobody can make heads or tails of. Or maybe they CAN undo it but Jon declines in hopes of getting a second chance to live his life the way he was supposed to instead of how it played out.

    We’ve seen weirder solutions to even weirder circumstances than Jon’s so everything’s gonna be just fine. May take a bit longer than some would like but it’ll get solved none the less.

  5. #6425
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    This is the perfect means for conservative superman writers who hate superman being a father to completely drop Jon as a character

  6. #6426
    Astonishing Member Soubhagya's Avatar
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    I am not posting or visiting here as often as i used to. So, seeing all this is staggering. How much can a man do? After Bendis' arrival we have Jimmy Olsen, Lois Lane. And now Legion of Superheroes. So, much is happening.

  7. #6427
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soubhagya View Post
    I am not posting or visiting here as often as i used to. So, seeing all this is staggering. How much can a man do? After Bendis' arrival we have Jimmy Olsen, Lois Lane. And now Legion of Superheroes. So, much is happening.
    As a fan, this makes me happy. I'm technically a newbie when it comes to comics. After just having 2 books, now expanding to 5 (not counting YJ and Supergirl) I'm thrilled about all of this. My only concern is Bendis' workload. I hope the relaunches are successful and we get more writers to lighten the load.

  8. #6428
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    That's not true at all. Jon superheroed as a kid with a superhero friend. Clark superheroed as a kid with superhero friends. Hell, Conner superheroed as a kid (chronologically) with friends. The only difference was who said friends were and the settings. So its semantics at best. They weren't breaking any molds that hadn't already been done with Clark or Kon. Jon is just the third in line to do the same thing; he's hardly unique, whether he's 10 or 17. So having Jon team with the same superheroes his father did back in the day...hardly hurts any uniqueness as there wasn't much there to begin with. His only unique quality is being a canon biological son. That's it. And I'm not saying that's not enough reason to like him, like its me questioning why people do. I'm in no position to say what qualifiers need to be in place for someone to be a fan of a character. But its just not true to say Jon was doing anything that Clark never did as a character in his 80 years (or again, Kon either).
    Only if your purposely using the broadest definition possible. Clark and Connor weren't kids when they hung out with the Legion and Young Justice respectively. They were teenagers. That makes a huge difference whether you want to acknowledge that or not. It's a completely different stage of life. Additionally, there is a huge difference between hanging out with a group of friends and one specific friend. Jon's situation was unique. Now it's not.

    And there is way more to Jon than just being Superman's son. I realize you don't see it, and as you have acknowledged, you don't particularly like the character. But you have to realize since Jon is so popular (and ten-year-old Jon in particular), it's quite likely people see something in him that they see something in him that you apparently don't. He is his own unique person (or was), even if you can't see it.
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  9. #6429
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Clark was a kid when his adventures began, about 8 years old, and it took circa 200 issues till the Legion was introduced. Considering the way the Superboy title handled his aging back then, in measured bursts, he was about 12-13 when he met the Legion. She he wasn't a teen yet. Kon I'll give you, although chronologically he was actually closer to a newborn (and thus, adding a wrinkle to the character that frankly is more unique than Kon OR Clark). But Clark was definitely a kid, so Jon's situation is not at all unique to the history of the lore. And yeah technically there is a difference between just having one friend, a team, or just meeting various supporting friends throughout your adventures, but again I consider that more semantics. The stories still are comprised of very similar, and thus not that unique, themes. Hell that's not even necessarily a knock. I like characters who aren't all that unique myself. I'm a huge Hank Henshaw fan, but I'm not going to pretend that he's some major unique villain in Superman's rogue's gallery to support how I like him. I just like him. But again its a symptom of what I see as the specific character of Jon being wildly overblown in terms of impact to the lore.

    And I do acknowledge he has fans, but I don't acknowledge he's as super popular as his base claims. Or, at the very least, the legion of fans he has for some reason don't seem to tangibly support his titles. He came roaring out of the gate, but it has settled a ton. That's nothing against the fans he does have, that's more than fine. But its exaggerated how big the base is these days.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 06-15-2019 at 09:18 AM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "Now why don't we step up here and everybody get stepped up, and let's get some stepped up personal space up in this place." - Phillip Jacobs

  10. #6430
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Clark was a kid when his adventures began, about 8 years old, and it took circa 200 issues till the Legion was introduced. Considering the way the Superboy title handled his aging back then, in measured bursts, he was about 12-13 when he met the Legion. She he wasn't a teen yet. Kon I'll give you, although chronologically he was actually closer to a newborn (and thus, adding a wrinkle to the character that frankly is more unique than Kon OR Clark). But Clark was definitely a kid, so Jon's situation is not at all unique to the history of the lore. And yeah technically there is a difference between just having one friend, a team, or just meeting various supporting friends throughout your adventures, but again I consider that more semantics. The stories still are comprised of very similar, and thus not that unique, themes. Hell that's not even necessarily a knock. I like characters who aren't all that unique myself. I'm a huge Hank Henshaw fan, but I'm not going to pretend that he's some major unique villain in Superman's rogue's gallery to support how I like him. I just like him. But again its a symptom of what I see as the specific character of Jon being wildly overblown in terms of impact to the lore.

    And I do acknowledge he has fans, but I don't acknowledge he's as super popular as his base claims. Or, at the very least, the legion of fans he has for some reason don't seem to tangibly support his titles. He came roaring out of the gate, but it has settled a ton. That's nothing against the fans he does have, that's more than fine. But its exaggerated how big the base is these days.
    This is paradise for you...perfect because you basically have assurance that Jon is going to get Chris kented.

    At least I have satisfaction in telling you this. Diana and Clark will never be a thing

  11. #6431
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Because Superman and Wonder Woman have anything to do with this conversation. That's the difference between you and me, I'm having a conversation. You're just ticked off and spiteful and taking it out on everyone. Sorry a character you like got taken in a direction that you didn't like. But that's a bad excuse to be a jerk to people. Hope you get that worked out.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 06-15-2019 at 09:59 AM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "Now why don't we step up here and everybody get stepped up, and let's get some stepped up personal space up in this place." - Phillip Jacobs

  12. #6432
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Clark was a kid when his adventures began, about 8 years old, and it took circa 200 issues till the Legion was introduced. Considering the way the Superboy title handled his aging back then, in measured bursts, he was about 12-13 when he met the Legion. She he wasn't a teen yet. Kon I'll give you, although chronologically he was actually closer to a newborn (and thus, adding a wrinkle to the character that frankly is more unique than Kon OR Clark). But Clark was definitely a kid, so Jon's situation is not at all unique to the history of the lore. And yeah technically there is a difference between just having one friend, a team, or just meeting various supporting friends throughout your adventures, but again I consider that more semantics. The stories still are comprised of very similar, and thus not that unique, themes. Hell that's not even necessarily a knock. I like characters who aren't all that unique myself. I'm a huge Hank Henshaw fan, but I'm not going to pretend that he's some major unique villain in Superman's rogue's gallery to support how I like him. I just like him. But again its a symptom of what I see as the specific character of Jon being wildly overblown in terms of impact to the lore.
    Clark did look or act like a pre-teen when the Legion was introduced. And 13 is still a teenager and a very different stage of life than 10. Jon was different. His situation was unique and he's a different character from Clark when written right. Kids are different from their parents. You can't acknowledge that, that's fine, but respect the fact that other people see more to the character than you do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    And I do acknowledge he has fans, but I don't acknowledge he's as super popular as his base claims. Or, at the very least, the legion of fans he has for some reason don't seem to tangibly support his titles. He came roaring out of the gate, but it has settled a ton. That's nothing against the fans he does have, that's more than fine. But its exaggerated how big the base is these days.
    When Super Sons was originally cancelled it was pulling in bigger numbers than a lot of DC mainstays. He's popular. Denying that is simply...well, denial.
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  13. #6433
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    If I didn't respect your opinions I wouldn't be having a conversation with you. We simply disagree. I see nothing unique about Jon's adventures that hadn't been seen before in Superman's vast 80 year history. And that's not always the fault of a specific character. 80 years is a long time. Superman's done it all. Jon's stories offered nothing revolutionary considering that vast library and all that is within it in regards to the focus character whose had his entire life explored. That's why I maintain the differences are only on a level of semantics. Unique is just the wrong word for Jon Kent. Anything he's done so far Superman/boy did first.

    When Super Sons was originally cancelled it was pulling in bigger numbers than a lot of DC mainstays. He's popular. Denying that is simply...well, denial.
    And many of those mainstays only have middling popularity as well. Not a lot is a sure thing at DC right now outside of Batman, and its been that way for a long time. Its comparing apples to apples. I'm not saying it got canceled originally because it tanked hardcore, it probably would have continued if not for the new direction (and continued to fall most likely), but it did drop after the Rebirth newness faded. Like most everything else. And the continuation dropped further. Again, he has a fanbase. I've never denied that. All I've ever said is that base is not as large as its made out to be all things considered. He's as popular as most of the younger generation characters are. But that's not burning-books-off-the-shelves popular. And the only reason I brought it up is because there's a notion that changing the character up, for good or ill, was a crime against nature to something that was just total money in the bank. And it was far from that. This isn't shelving Clark Kent as Superman for someone new wearing the cape-type risk. Its more like Speedy turning into Arsenal.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 06-15-2019 at 10:18 AM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

    "Now why don't we step up here and everybody get stepped up, and let's get some stepped up personal space up in this place." - Phillip Jacobs

  14. #6434
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    Clark did look or act like a pre-teen when the Legion was introduced. And 13 is still a teenager and a very different stage of life than 10. Jon was different. His situation was unique and he's a different character from Clark when written right. Kids are different from their parents. You can't acknowledge that, that's fine, but respect the fact that other people see more to the character than you do.



    When Super Sons was originally cancelled it was pulling in bigger numbers than a lot of DC mainstays. He's popular. Denying that is simply...well, denial.
    Notice how they bring down super sons(which had and will sell better than legion of superheroes....guarantee it) to prop up bendis

  15. #6435
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    If I didn't respect your opinions I wouldn't be having a conversation with you. We simply disagree. I see nothing unique about Jon's adventures that hadn't been seen before in Superman's vast 80 year history. And that's not always the fault of a specific character. 80 years is a long time. Superman's done it all. Jon's stories offered nothing revolutionary considering that vast library and all that is within it in regards to the focus character whose had his entire life explored. That's why I maintain the differences are only on a level of semantics. Unique is just the wrong word for Jon Kent. Anything he's done so far Superman/boy did first.
    So Clark killed Ma Kent's cat with his laser vision by mistake while trying to save its live? Clark's best friend growing up was an the grand-son of the league of assassins? Clark was forced to move to Metropolis as a boy against his wishes? Sorry, but no. You are either purposely ignoring the differences between Clark and Jon's experiences or you are looking closely enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    And many of those mainstays only have middling popularity as well. Not a lot is a sure thing at DC right now outside of Batman, and its been that way for a long time. Its comparing apples to apples. I'm not saying it got canceled originally because it tanked hardcore, it probably would have continued if not for the new direction (and continued to fall most likely), but it did drop after the Rebirth newness faded. Like most everything else. And the continuation dropped further. Again, he has a fanbase. I've never denied that. All I've ever said is that base is not as large as its made out to be all things considered. He's as popular as most of the younger generation characters are. But that's not burning-books-off-the-shelves popular. And the only reason I brought it up is because there's a notion that changing the character up, for good or ill, was a crime against nature to something that was just total money in the bank. And it was far from that. This isn't shelving Clark Kent as Superman for someone new wearing the cape-type risk. Its more like Speedy turning into Arsenal.
    Okay, this is just ridiculous. If everything dropped as the Rebirth newness faded, then dropping numbers cannot be used as a measure of popularity compared to the other characters of the DC Universe. His book was keeping pace. And he was a new character, meaning he had to draw people in, in a way that, Titans or Aquaman (both of which Super Sons was beating) didn't. Around 30,000 is pretty respectable numbers for a comic. He's popular. That goes without saying. No one is arguing that he's pulling in Batman numbers, but that's a ridiculous standard to hold any DC character too.

    Furthermore, altering or changing the character DOES risk alienating his fanbase regardless of how large they are. There's no way of suggesting there isn't a risk in that. And this is nothing like Speedy becoming Arsenal since that was just a new identity. It wasn't skipping over seven years of his development. Come on, man. It really feels like your reaching.
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