Official : Bendis gets both books

[RedWhiteAndBlueSupes]

I'm sure there will be some of this. Like habits, traditions, or even points of view that he forms from his time up there with Jor-El, but remember Bendis said that the first thing Jon says when he gets back home is "grandpa's crazy!" So, likely not the mini Jor-El that some are assuming. Even the choice in saying "grandpa" over "grandfather" or whatever seems to denote at least a base of old Jon is very much there.

I think the main points of friction will be 1) Jon's appearance. I'm pretty much convinced that he'll be showing up in that gangly post-puberty body we were teased, and that's gonna really hit Clark hard because he's gonna feel like he missed out on his boy growing. 2) Jon's technically an adult by Krytonian standards, and he's probably taken that more to heart than his parents understand/assume 3) Doubt he's ever going back to normal school. 4) This is probably gonna be a big one: I doubt he's gonna keep a secret identity any longer. Aka glasses aren't likely. Basically, Clark's dealing with both a kid becoming a teenager AND and kid coming back from super space college. Bendis probably channeling his own personal experiences and seeing it from the other side with his oldest child.

You think thats Jon on the cover for Superman #6? Or some alternate version of him anyway?

[Miles To Go]

And ya know what? I'm actually liking Bendis so far on Superman and Action, as far as A list writers at DC go, so far he's done a solid job. Hasn't killed anyone needlessly or written anyone badly out of character".

Just try saying that to some Lois fans after AC#1004. Even I caught heat from some of them for defending how Bendis wrote her in that

[Superlad93]

You think thats Jon on the cover for Superman #6? Or some alternate version of him anyway?

Yeah, I do actually.

Tangentially, I've been thinking about it more, along with Bendis' "imaginary stories get to the heart of a character in a way that the normal ones tend to not" comments, and this seems--interestingly enough--to line up with Superman (1970) issue 224 where Superman and Lois have a super baby that doesn't quite fit into what Superman assumed.

Notice how similar the idea of Superman's 10 year old son who just a year ago was playing with toy heroes is now supposed to be treated like an adult who will have very specific wold views is to the idea of Superman's week old son being far smarter than him, requesting stake to eat as opposed to baby food, and disproving the theories of all the great minds on Earth. The through line seeming to be the disconnect between the age of the child and what they look like and what they can do. In 224 Superman doesn't even know how to introduce the child to the people in the neighborhood because of the baby's temperament and appearance. I imagine Jon no longer going to human school to be similar to this.

Jon's growth spurt seems to be likened to super baby's head deformity/"future brain."




This is also quite similar to Miracleman's daughter, Winter. The bewilderment of this man-god who can't help but think like a normal human in many ways when his less than one year old talks, floats, and says that she may have to go away for awhile is palpable. Like Jon, Winter also travels the galaxy for a time to learn and nurture her unique situation.



And even after Miracleman has overvalued the Earth in the most drastic way that history has ever seen, and created an actual pantheon of gods with actual steps taken to elevate humans to that same level, Winter, freshly returned from her galactic travels, hardly notices, and she even says "you decided to leave the sky that color, did you?" later on. But even more than that, and as an extreme and adult (Miracleman is a very adult comic, you must know) parallel to Jon's situation, Winter, the 4 year old by human standards, entered a synthetic "pleasure body" and, well, engaged in "pleasure." MM can hardly gather his thoughts when he hears this. He can do the amazing and fantastic, and change the very foundations of the way the world works (people don't even stay dead any more in his world. They live in a synthetic purgatory if they wish it), but he still thinks like a human in many ways so hearing this still puts him on the mental equivalent of his backside. It remains an uncomfortable thought in an uncomfortable but well written book full of uncomfortable thoughts that deliberately challenge conventional thinking associated with not just comics and hero books but also just normal life.

I'm not somehow insinuating that Bendis will be going quite as ham, no, not at all. But what I am maybe trying to broach is the idea that Bendis may be tapping into far tamer waters similar to it. So, we have things like Jor-El calling out Clark for being relatively narrow-minded in how he's gone about his duties to the world. Or how he brings up the idea that Jon's maturation may not fit into the mold either Clark or Lois imagined. Or the idea that Lois and Clark might now starting taking a less conventional approach to their relationship. And there's also the idea Earth will be making actual strikes to enter the galactic conversation thus, logically, fundamentally altering aspects of it. It's an extremely soft challenge of our known conventions when compared to the hard and unflinching, post-modern adult fantasy that is Moore's Miracleman, but a pretty clear challenge regardless.



See, in a surprisingly subtle and clearly effective (given some fan reactions) bit of character relatability, we, the readers, are all like Superman and Miracleman in that we see/hear about a potential super-child, and we think "oh, so just a normal kid that can fly, lift stuff, and is fast." And that's a fair assumption, but not really taking into account just how strange things can get in this world. Why should the rearing of a child be exempt from this strangeness--especially when said child is technically a new species? But, like Clark, our first thought isn't to take that possibility into account, and we react based on what we expect being incongruous with what we are faced with. This is gonna leave us, again like Clark, on the back foot trying to wrap our heads around Jon's new situation because we've got our own wants and hopes for said situation. I imagine that's where the frustration for both Clark and the reader will come from, and if that's the case, one has to admire the how directly Bendis is having the reader relate and sympathize with the main character of the books, Mr. Unrelatable aka Superman.

[Vordan]

Oh God I remember Miracleman, great book, I hope Gaiman can finally finish his run. If Bendis actually wants to take Superman in that direction I’m all for it. I hope he doesn’t make Jon unrecognizable personality-wise though.

[Miles To Go]

I hope he doesn’t make Jon unrecognizable personality-wise though.

Some argue he already started doing that in the flashbacks to him and Clark last issue, when he was venting about what people thought of him.

[Vordan]

Some argue he already started doing that in the flashbacks to him and Clark last issue, when he was venting about what people thought of him.

And I’ve already said that I don’t agree at all with them.

[Stardust]

And here I thought "Super-children" only existed in the Twilight franchise.

[LordUltimus]

There was that scene in the Man of Steel mini where it's implied that Jon has porn hidden in his room.

[manwhohaseverything]

Yeah, I do actually.

Tangentially, I've been thinking about it more, along with Bendis' "imaginary stories get to the heart of a character in a way that the normal ones tend to not" comments, and this seems--interestingly enough--to line up with Superman (1970) issue 224 where Superman and Lois have a super baby that doesn't quite fit into what Superman assumed.

Notice how similar the idea of Superman's 10 year old son who just a year ago was playing with toy heroes is now supposed to be treated like an adult who will have very specific wold views is to the idea of Superman's week old son being far smarter than him, requesting stake to eat as opposed to baby food, and disproving the theories of all the great minds on Earth. The through line seeming to be the disconnect between the age of the child and what they look like and what they can do. In 224 Superman doesn't even know how to introduce the child to the people in the neighborhood because of the baby's temperament and appearance. I imagine Jon no longer going to human school to be similar to this.

Jon's growth spurt seems to be likened to super baby's head deformity/"future brain."




This is also quite similar to Miracleman's daughter, Winter. The bewilderment of this man-god who can't help but think like a normal human in many ways when his less than one year old talks, floats, and says that she may have to go away for awhile is palpable. Like Jon, Winter also travels the galaxy for a time to learn and nurture her unique situation.



And even after Miracleman has overvalued the Earth in the most drastic way that history has ever seen, and created an actual pantheon of gods with actual steps taken to elevate humans to that same level, Winter, freshly returned from her galactic travels, hardly notices, and she even says "you decided to leave the sky that color, did you?" later on. But even more than that, and as an extreme and adult (Miracleman is a very adult comic, you must know) parallel to Jon's situation, Winter, the 4 year old by human standards, entered a synthetic "pleasure body" and, well, engaged in "pleasure." MM can hardly gather his thoughts when he hears this. He can do the amazing and fantastic, and change the very foundations of the way the world works (people don't even stay dead any more in his world. They live in a synthetic purgatory if they wish it), but he still thinks like a human in many ways so hearing this still puts him on the mental equivalent of his backside. It remains an uncomfortable thought in an uncomfortable but well written book full of uncomfortable thoughts that deliberately challenge conventional thinking associated with not just comics and hero books but also just normal life.

I'm not somehow insinuating that Bendis will be going quite as ham, no, not at all. But what I am maybe trying to broach is the idea that Bendis may be tapping into far tamer waters similar to it. So, we have things like Jor-El calling out Clark for being relatively narrow-minded in how he's gone about his duties to the world. Or how he brings up the idea that Jon's maturation may not fit into the mold either Clark or Lois imagined. Or the idea that Lois and Clark might now starting taking a less conventional approach to their relationship. And there's also the idea Earth will be making actual strikes to enter the galactic conversation thus, logically, fundamentally altering aspects of it. It's an extremely soft challenge of our known conventions when compared to the hard and unflinching, post-modern adult fantasy that is Moore's Miracleman, but a pretty clear challenge regardless.



See, in a surprisingly subtle and clearly effective (given some fan reactions) bit of character relatability, we, the readers, are all like Superman and Miracleman in that we see/hear about a potential super-child, and we think "oh, so just a normal kid that can fly, lift stuff, and is fast." And that's a fair assumption, but not really taking into account just how strange things can get in this world. Why should the rearing of a child be exempt from this strangeness--especially when said child is technically a new species? But, like Clark, our first thought isn't to take that possibility into account, and we react based on what we expect being incongruous with what we are faced with. This is gonna leave us, again like Clark, on the back foot trying to wrap our heads around Jon's new situation because we've got our own wants and hopes for said situation. I imagine that's where the frustration for both Clark and the reader will come from, and if that's the case, one has to admire the how directly Bendis is having the reader relate and sympathize with the main character of the books, Mr. Unrelatable aka Superman.

I feel like this Change is gonna be a shock to the readers who started with rebirth.People react to this kind of drastic Change in character, very poorly. Just look at new52 superman.Morrison was not even trying to change the character, he was just returning the character to it's roots(golden age) . Jon for the most part has been an innocent boy. I feel this kills the innocence of the boy in one big sweep. Rather than removing it slowly in stages. I mean this was the kid less than a year ago was scared of seeing dead bodies in supersons. The selling point of jon was that, he was like little version of post crisis superman. He had normal childhood with his parents in a farm, until he found out his dad was the superman and he had powers. Sure he was mischievous, but he was largely just an innocent kid.
So character will be hugley altered to something it was not previously. People might not take it will and reject. I feel like Jon would end like Chris if the change is something like you are suggesting.If the character was created like this from the start it would not be a problem, but Jon was not.

[Miles To Go]

And I’ve already said that I don’t agree at all with them.

You might not agree, but that is the sentiment right now from a good percentage of fans and from the YT comic reviewers I've seen, I disagree with how people view how he wrote Lois in AC#1004 but I've also processed their take on the situation.

[manwhohaseverything]

You might not agree, but that is the sentiment right now from a good percentage of fans and from the YT comic reviewers I've seen, I disagree with how people view how he wrote Lois in AC#1004 but I've also processed their take on the situation.

Atleast changing some of the babys to smallville would have made the dialogs more tolerable.But characterization would still be inconsistent. I would never believe Lois can't handle being writer and mom at the same time from previous run.

[Nelliebly]

Just try saying that to some Lois fans after AC#1004. Even I caught heat from some of them for defending how Bendis wrote her in that

Stop talking about fans this way. Like it or not, this issue was divisive. People are allowed to disagree with you without you acting like it’s unreasonable.

[Superlad93]

The selling point of jon was that, he was like little version of post crisis superman.

I have to, with respect, disagree with you very strongly on this point right here. Jon basically being a small Superman is what sold you (and myself) on him, but not what his actual reasoned out "selling point" was and still remains. That aforementioned selling point is, quite simply, the fact that he's Superman and Lois Lane's biological son. There is no aspect of the character that pushes his popularity and continued marketing worth more than simply being the no-we're-totally-serious-bro-this-isn't-an-imaginary-story-or-clone-or-trick-he's-really-their-kid. What you described was a later addition to that base concept brought about by Rebirth. It's not something so far ingrained that it can't be tweaked under the management of story progression. Dan Jurgens, his actual creator, envisioned the character as having Clark's looks and powers but Lois' penchant for trouble and her inquisitive nature. This has since been largely done away with in favor of the smaller Superman take, and there's nothing wrong with that.

As another example you might appreciate, Damian Wayne was originally designed to be, and this is a direct quote from Morrison, "Batman's evil son." But as Morrison went on with his story, he, via a singular world shifting event (Bruce dies) not unlike (Jon leaving with Jor-El), Damian is now more or less retooled as smaller Batman to Dick's bigger Robin. And this is more or less the take that he's known for, but Damian's selling point remains what it has always been: he's the no-joke Son Of Batman. That's the hook that gets people to try out whatever characterization he's being built into.

But I totally get where you're coming from because smaller Superman with his dynamic with his dad was what sold me on Jon (not unlike how smaller Batman with his dynamic with Dick sold me on Damian), and I've had many a debate and conversation how the merits of this take and why I enjoyed it so much. But I can appreciate, roll with, and maybe even grow to love a new look at his selling point, being the son of Superman.

I feel like Jon would end like Chris if the change is something like you are suggesting.

Chris quite simply didn't have the staying power that Jon does. As soon as Chris was made it felt like they were trying to hurry him out the door, and they hardly ever devoted time to him before New Krypton. They only dipped a toe in the water when it came to Chris. With Jon they bet the whole farm. They devoted a whole main line Superman book to his growth, and they set him up as a direct counterpart to Damian in their own book. Plus they moved heaven and Earth to fold him into continuity, and on top of that they put Conner Kent on hiatus specifically to give Jon all the room he needed (this is confirmed). Chris isn't even remotely close. This gives Jon wiggle room to get a little strange now that he's fortified.

If the character was created like this from the start it would not be a problem, but Jon was not.

If this statement were applied to every character in an draconian fashion then we'd have missed out on quite a few great comic characters, wouldn't we? There's a mold in place to be aware of, sure, but part of that is deliberately going outside of it, reinterpreting it, and staying within it of course. We'll have to wait and see how Bendis plays with it.

[Vordan]

Honestly I’d prefer if more of Lois’ personality showed up in Jon. Jon being a mini-Clark feels weak to me. Even in Tomasi’s run Jon would often assert himself as separate from his father’s influence. And Damian isn’t quite a mini-Bruce. He’s far more brash, arrogant (as unbelievable as that sounds), ruthless, and prideful than his father, while still retaining Bruce’s compassion and empathy, even if he often chooses not to use those traits.

[Superlad93]

Honestly I’d prefer if more of Lois’ personality showed up in Jon. Jon being a mini-Clark feels weak to me. Even in Tomasi’s run Jon would often assert himself as separate from his father’s influence. And Damian isn’t quite a mini-Bruce. He’s far more brash, arrogant (as unbelievable as that sounds), ruthless, and prideful than his father, while still retaining Bruce’s compassion and empathy, even if he often chooses not to use those traits.

It's not verbatim "mini Clark" or "mini Bruce" no, but even by the admittance of their own writers at the time, both characters were in one way or another modeled to function like smaller versions of the fathers. They had their own specific characteristics that made it so they were recognizable as their own characters, but part of the novelty of was that they were nearly parodies of their dads. Again, Morrison even said something to the effect of "it's Batman and Robin, but Robin's the Batman."

My point with the above was to say that while I greatly enjoyed the novelty of the mini Clark aspects of Jon's characterization during Rebirth, I'm very much open to branching out of that mold into something more uniquely him because the main idea and selling point remains consistent: The Legit Son Of Superman. That carries with it potential all its own. I'll ultimately need to be sold on what the new direction is, yes, but I'm willing--I'm movable.