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  1. #8971
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordUltimus View Post
    I'm just saying, if they were expecting typical sales it seems weird to put out advertisements that say "BENDIS IS COMING!"

    I don't recall any ads that went "TOMASI IS COMING!"
    A good point, but there was a ton of Rebirth advertising and Clark and Jon were both featured very prominently, so Tomasi's run *did* get plenty of advertising.

    Like I said, I don't know what DC expected from Bendis. Maybe they did expect him to sell a ton of comics, though I don't know why they'd think that looking at Bendis' last years at Marvel. Maybe they were just *hoping* he'd sell well but not *expecting* it? Who knows? But given how Bendis sold before leaving Marvel and how Superman usually sells, it seems a strange thing to expect Bendis on Superman performing markedly better than usual to me.

    And I've mostly enjoyed Bendis' run, so I'm not hating on the guy or anything. I'll be sad to see him go, since DC is likely to give us worse.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  2. #8972
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    A good point, but there was a ton of Rebirth advertising and Clark and Jon were both featured very prominently, so Tomasi's run *did* get plenty of advertising.
    And Rebirth was more of a sales success than Bendis's run, so that advertising paid off better. The fact that they were hyping Bendis the man rather than a publishing initiative is pretty clear evidence that they were expecting Bendis himself to be a draw. I completely understand why you say they shouldn't of thought he'd be a sales juggernaut, but everything seems to indicate that they still thought it. And the industry gossip over the past two years has seemed to indicate DC was expecting bigger numbers from him.

    What Bendis has proven to be successful at is introducing new characters who can profitable in other types of media (Jessica Jones, Miles Morales), and his work at DC has shown this could still be a good use for him (Naomi has been unquestionably his biggest sales success at DC). The new management might want to take him off projects like Superman have him work on new characters (or new versions of characters) that can be profitable on TV or in film.
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  3. #8973
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    And Rebirth was more of a sales success than Bendis's run, so that advertising paid off better. The fact that they were hyping Bendis the man rather than a publishing initiative is pretty clear evidence that they were expecting Bendis himself to be a draw. I completely understand why you say they shouldn't of thought he'd be a sales juggernaut, but everything seems to indicate that they still thought it. And the industry gossip over the past two years has seemed to indicate DC was expecting bigger numbers from him.
    It's unfair to think that one guy's run would outsell a entire line-wide relaunch, but yeah I get what you're saying. It's hard to judge what DC expected because they *did* put effort into marketing Bendis, but his prior performance and Superman's general sales are clear indicators he wouldn't break the ceiling, and after more than two years he's still on the books. If DC expected him to move mountains, I'd think he'd have been pulled off by now. But they've also kept advertising him on Superman, so.....I don't know what they expected.

    What Bendis has proven to be successful at is introducing new characters who can profitable in other types of media (Jessica Jones, Miles Morales), and his work at DC has shown this could still be a good use for him (Naomi has been unquestionably his biggest sales success at DC). The new management might want to take him off projects like Superman have him work on new characters (or new versions of characters) that can be profitable on TV or in film.
    I've mostly enjoyed his run and I'm intrigued by the earth President and open identity, I want to see where this could lead and I hope DC doesn't just throw us back into the same boring status quo anytime soon (after almost thirty years I'm ready for the next phase of Clark's life). But as long as we get to explore these new avenues, I'd be absolutely fine with Bendis leaving the books and focusing on his own original projects. Anything to get more Naomi!
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  4. #8974
    Extraordinary Member HsssH's Avatar
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    I find this "Superman sells what he sells" mindset rather weird, so why even bother with getting good (and marketable) creative teams if it won't have any effect? Other franchises sell differently depending on who is at the helm so I'm not sure why Superman is an exception here.

  5. #8975
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    The mindset isn't saying that Superman can't go higher. He can and he should. Its just an acknowledgement that DC/WB have hurt the character so much and for so long, that its going to take more than just DC's usual gimmicks to reverse it. It'll take time to build him back up, and that you need the right people to bring him back up. Then sustain it. Those are some big checkpoints. Until we see even an inkling of that, that's where the "Superman sells what he sells" mindset comes from.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

  6. #8976
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    It's unfair to think that one guy's run would outsell a entire line-wide relaunch, but yeah I get what you're saying. It's hard to judge what DC expected because they *did* put effort into marketing Bendis, but his prior performance and Superman's general sales are clear indicators he wouldn't break the ceiling, and after more than two years he's still on the books. If DC expected him to move mountains, I'd think he'd have been pulled off by now. But they've also kept advertising him on Superman, so.....I don't know what they expected.
    Fairness probably didn't play into DC's expectations.
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  7. #8977
    Extraordinary Member DragonPiece's Avatar
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    So with the 5G Batman storyline finally coming in January, I wonder if we'll start to see Jon as Superman as soon as January 2021...

  8. #8978
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    I find this "Superman sells what he sells" mindset rather weird, so why even bother with getting good (and marketable) creative teams if it won't have any effect? Other franchises sell differently depending on who is at the helm so I'm not sure why Superman is an exception here.
    Like Sacred said, it's not about the character so much as the long term treatment. DC has spent thirty years half-assing it, with the occasional high quality talent tossed on for a brief amount of time. There's been little internal consistency, less effort to actually build anything, and a constant stream of reboots, retcons, and upheavals that change the foundation of the character.

    If you're a long-time comic book reader, you've seen DC go through the cycle and you know that even if, today, they look like they're actually putting in effort, by tomorrow they'll have changed their minds and by the next day, will be tossing low-quality crap at you again. So why bother reading at all? At this point, if you're still reading Superman you're pretty much a die-hard, everyone else has given up already and won't be tricked into returning just because things look good for five seconds.

    Think about it like this; if you beat a dog every day for three years, that poor animal is going to be skittish and non-trusting. If you then give that dog to a nice owner who will take good care of it, is that dog suddenly going to act differently, or will it continue to mistrust people? It'll take a lot of time, and quality care, for that dog to start trusting you right? Same thing here; DC has abused Superman for years, it's gonna take more than a couple treats for fans to trust DC again.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  9. #8979
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonPiece View Post
    So with the 5G Batman storyline finally coming in January, I wonder if we'll start to see Jon as Superman as soon as January 2021...
    Is Bendis writing it I wonder? Maybe we’ll get more info at the second Fandome in Sept
    Last edited by Vordan; 08-24-2020 at 02:38 AM.

  10. #8980
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonPiece View Post
    So with the 5G Batman storyline finally coming in January, I wonder if we'll start to see Jon as Superman as soon as January 2021...
    That's the disturbing thought I had yesterday. If they're working a way to put Luke-Batman into current canon despite the larger 5G initiative being scrapped, Legion still pushing the Jon-as-Superman bullcrap starts to make more sense. Talk about even more depressing. Yeah they'll probably do it with Clark still around, but so what if some other undeserving character is the one being called Superman.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 08-23-2020 at 12:45 PM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

  11. #8981
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Honestly, i would take any character that feels more like a champion as superman with out dad or savior or messiah complexes . If its jon kent , so be it.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 08-24-2020 at 02:55 AM.

  12. #8982
    Astonishing Member kingaliencracker's Avatar
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    I'm just going to say this and leave it here...

    If DC's intent is to move forward with Jon replacing Clark as Superman, then watch the titles plummet to disastrously low sales after the initial curiosity sales bump subsides. Jon has absolutely no mainstream recognition from fans outside the Superman fan base, and the titles currently don't have the goodwill that Batman has developed over the course of 20 years or so. Further, if Bendis is leaving the titles either at the end of this year or early next year as has been reported - and that's around the time this is supposed to happen - who on Earth can DC get that will want to write Jon as Superman that will also bring in readers?

    God I REALLY wish DC would get its act together when it comes to Superman.

  13. #8983
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    IMHO the worst thing (by far) about Jon as a potential Superman is how much of Bendis' run seems to be focused uniquely on introducing him to the role (not my idea. It's a pal of mine's, and I have come to the conclusion that he is right).
    Not getting him as Superman would be just admitting that at least half of Bendis's issues and Legion series are a waste. At this point what the heck, let him step into the role for a short run like Ridley's Batman and then reboot everything. It won't be worse than what we have had for years.
    Last edited by Myskin; 08-24-2020 at 10:37 AM.
    Educational town, Rolemodel city and Moralofthestory land are the places where good comics go to die.

    DC writers and editors looked up and shouted "Save us!"
    And Alan Moore looked down and whispered "No."

    I'm kinda surprised Snyder didn't want Superman to watch Lois and Bruce conceive their love child. All the while singing the "Na na na na na na Batman!" theme song - Robotman, 03/06/2021

  14. #8984
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    I have a thought, could DC's push for Jon-Superman somehow be their underhanded way of keeping a "Superman" on board after his father becomes public property? Bare in mind I know very little about the licencing for Clark Kent-Superman, especially where the Shuster-Siegel families are concerned.

  15. #8985
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpmaluki View Post
    I have a thought, could DC's push for Jon-Superman somehow be their underhanded way of keeping a "Superman" on board after his father becomes public property? Bare in mind I know very little about the licencing for Clark Kent-Superman, especially where the Shuster-Siegel families are concerned.
    I think that a lot of us have seriously taken this possibility into account.
    Maybe not necessarily because of the public domain thing. But apparently DC - and mostly Didio, as far as I know - has been pushing for the creation of a Superson for a very long time
    Educational town, Rolemodel city and Moralofthestory land are the places where good comics go to die.

    DC writers and editors looked up and shouted "Save us!"
    And Alan Moore looked down and whispered "No."

    I'm kinda surprised Snyder didn't want Superman to watch Lois and Bruce conceive their love child. All the while singing the "Na na na na na na Batman!" theme song - Robotman, 03/06/2021

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