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  1. #8386
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I think if we were going for streamlining, Mon-El would be the more sensible choice. Nothing against Jo Nah, but just on paper it just seems to make more sense. He even has a costume, was Superman for hot minute, and everything.
    Again, I think the point is that Mon-El (the guy with "El" in his name who has Superman's exact powers) 1000000% *is* the obvious choice, thus making an alternative choice --even while Mon-El is there and able-bodied-- all the more effective. It says that you don't need to have the name "El", the exact look, or the exact powers to still be the guy.

    __________

    In terms of streamlining specifically, I was talking more about how rather than meeting Clark for a day or two, having memory loss, and then being a resident of the Phantom Zone for 1000 years, Mon-El seems to far more simply and effectively be a decedent of Jon's. And in the case of Ultraboy you'd have a 31st century Superman/Superboy pastiche with no familial or genetic ties to Superman/Superboy eventually outright function as the 31st century Superman rather than continuing to just happen to share some what similar powers and very, very a similar name.

    I think Kenan would probably stand out more in that vein
    Sure, but he already *is* Superman, so there is no journey with the Legion to get to that. Plus, he'd be another hero who is tethered to the past rather than the actual native Superman of the 31st century, which is the point of my whole theory.

    especially if a media adaption is more likely to emphasize a Superfamily member from the past joining the team...otherwise they won't need to have to have a Superman on there to begin with in my opinion.
    In my mind both is possible if not likely. Going into how would be long winded. Long story short: I view the possibility of an adaptation of Legion (live action film or otherwise) as the likely incubator/rehab for the Superman IP as well as a launchpad for their IP in greater media. So, theoretically, our new Superman would return to his time, and the Legion would still be left with a Superman on the team (along with a variation of the Miles "anyone can wear the mask" effect).
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  2. #8387
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    While I wouldn't deny that superman is more fundamental in nature than batman. I wouldn't say that character isn't struggling. This is not a good situation for the character to be in. He hasn't had something that isn't divisive in other media of quality . On top of that, people have prejudices both for and against the character. Overcoming that would be a herculean task. People rarely change their minds in a mob or bandwagon so to speak.
    He's struggling, sure, but that doesn't mean he's down for the count. Nowhere near. He's struggled in the past, he'll struggle again in the future. And he'll endure, just as he always has. That's not a reason to sit back and let this abuse continue or anything, but it *is* reason to not fear his extinction.

    I mean, nothing you're saying is untrue or wrong, but as they say, this too shall pass.

    Superman's legend, and more importantly the ideas and prejudices people have about him, are indeed a problem every bit as much as they're a benefit. Every jackass on earth thinks they know who and what Superman is and most of them are very, impossibly wrong, so it makes adaptations a tricky prospect. But that's just a hurdle, nothing more and nothing less, certainly nothing new, and one person with vision and talent can easily overcome that, just as they've done in the past.

    If Frontier is right, an animated Superman movie is the most popular animated offering on the DCU app. He won that Disney popularity contest. He's still one of the most recognized fictional entities on the entire planet; out of 7 billion people, there's like five guys who don't know what that "S" means. Not to mention that he still sells better than most of the comics on the shelves, even if he's rarely Top 10 currently. Sure, DC has done a great job of giving us sh*t product for the last thirty years, but think about the number of characters who wouldn't have survived that at all, much less still remain so popular. Think of all the characters who *have* fallen into limbo because of that kind of treatment.

    Superman is struggling, yeah. But I think we often forget just how strong this IP is, just how powerful it's appeal is. Like Morrison said, Superman is the greatest idea mankind ever had. That's not going to die because bad management spent a few years screwing up.
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  3. #8388
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    Again, I think the point is that Mon-El (the guy with "El" in his name who has Superman's exact powers) 1000000% *is* the obvious choice, thus making an alternative choice --even while Mon-El is there and able-bodied-- all the more effective. It says that you don't need to have the name "El", the exact look, or the exact powers to still be the guy.
    I mean...I guess? I feel like it would be more effective if Mon-El didn't actually exist.
    In terms of streamlining specifically, I was talking more about how rather than meeting Clark for a day or two, having memory loss, and then being a resident of the Phantom Zone for 1000 years, Mon-El seems to far more simply and effectively be a decedent of Jon's. And in the case of Ultraboy you'd have a 31st century Superman/Superboy pastiche with no familial or genetic ties to Superman/Superboy eventually outright function as the 31st century Superman rather than continuing to just happen to share some what similar powers and very, very a similar name.
    I like Mon-El's old origin, and prefer that, so I guess I can't help it .

    Maybe they could have him fulfill the role but just not call him Superman.
    Sure, but he already *is* Superman, so there is no journey with the Legion to get to that. Plus, he'd be another hero who is tethered to the past rather than the actual native Superman of the 31st century, which is the point of my whole theory.
    I think Kenan would feel more relevant and marketable as the Chinese Superman then trying to wholesale make a 31st century Superman for the Legion now would.
    In my mind both is possible if not likely. Going into how would be long winded. Long story short: I view the possibility of an adaptation of Legion (live action film or otherwise) as the likely incubator/rehab for the Superman IP as well as a launchpad for their IP in greater media. So, theoretically, our new Superman would return to his time, and the Legion would still be left with a Superman on the team (along with a variation of the Miles "anyone can wear the mask" effect).
    I do get the sense Bendis is trying to inject more "name recognition" into the Legion, both in terms of roster and story-wise. But, again, if the franchise is still going to be attached to the idea of a past Superman/boy coming to and from spending time with the team...I don't see the need for there to be an actual individual on the team with the name Superman rather then letting everyone in the group stand on their own terms.

    There is a time and a place for an "anyone can wear the mask" situation, but I just don't see it here.

  4. #8389
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I mean...I guess? I feel like it would be more effective if Mon-El didn't actually exist.
    I'd argue that part of the point would be that he were around. But I'd say that it would work perfectly fine-- though not quite as pointed an idea-- if he were not.

    Maybe they could have him fulfill the role but just not call him Superman.
    Sure, why not

    I think Kenan would feel more relevant and marketable as the Chinese Superman then trying to wholesale make a 31st century Superman for the Legion now would
    .

    But our conversation was about the 31st century. If you want Kenan as the Chinese Superman you had him.


    But, again, if the franchise is still going to be attached to the idea of a past Superman/boy coming to and from spending time with the team...I don't see the need for there to be an actual individual on the team with the name Superman rather then letting everyone in the group stand on their own terms.
    Speaking just for the comics, if the idea is to keep a set up where a Jon stays on the team, then sure. But if that story has an endpoint that we'll be seeing play out, then I'd say a 31st century equivalent is viable. The Legion really hasn't proven it's ability to stand on its own.
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  5. #8390

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    This reminds me of fan theories about the JL3000 book before it launched. Fans thought it was gonna be some Legion members wearing the mantles of the Justice League because of XYZ.

  6. #8391
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Bendis interview.

  7. #8392
    Incredible Member Journey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post

    Bendis interview.
    Jon wasn't a problem Bendis made him a problem I want this man gone his run is trash.....

  8. #8393
    Fantastic Member Man_of_Tomorrow's Avatar
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    From what I have understood from various interviews DC planned to age Jon anyway to make him 5G Superman.

    So bendis pretty much argued you can have him as superboy in the future and Superman in 5G.

    I think it was in a world Ballon he said that.

  9. #8394
    Mighty Member Blue22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post

    Bendis interview.
    I've never been so incredibly proud of a YouTube comment section in my entire life

  10. #8395
    Astonishing Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue22 View Post
    I've never been so incredibly proud of a YouTube comment section in my entire life
    I haven't checked the comments. Is it that bad?

  11. #8396
    Extraordinary Member DragonPiece's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Man_of_Tomorrow View Post
    From what I have understood from various interviews DC planned to age Jon anyway to make him 5G Superman.

    So bendis pretty much argued you can have him as superboy in the future and Superman in 5G.

    I think it was in a world Ballon he said that.
    Yep, he's said that a few times. To be honest, I do wonder if it would have just been better to have Jon go directly from a kid to a adult superman in 5G. Since Didio seemed to be set on that happening, I wonder if fans would have enjoyed that more.

  12. #8397
    Mighty Member Blue22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonPiece View Post
    Yep, he's said that a few times. To be honest, I do wonder if it would have just been better to have Jon go directly from a kid to a adult superman in 5G. Since Didio seemed to be set on that happening, I wonder if fans would have enjoyed that more.
    It would have still been disappointing and unnecessary but having it happen via 5G timeskip would have been preferable to what we got. And hell, with Didio gone, it might not have even happened anyway.

  13. #8398
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue22 View Post
    It would have still been disappointing and unnecessary but having it happen via 5G timeskip would have been preferable to what we got. And hell, with Didio gone, it might not have even happened anyway.
    Yeah, even if aging up Jon was the plan for 5G anyway, without Bendis we would have gotten two more years of ten-year old Jon and Super Sons, which would have been vastly preferable to Bendis's crappy take on the character we've been subjected to.
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  14. #8399
    AT EASE, LOO-SUH! Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam View Post
    Yeah, even if aging up Jon was the plan for 5G anyway, without Bendis we would have gotten two more years of ten-year old Jon and Super Sons, which would have been vastly preferable to Bendis's crappy take on the character we've been subjected to.
    Based on a number of interviews, no, that doesn't seem to be the case. Apparently after Action Comics 1000 Super Sons (outside of gift they gave Tomasi to finish up his run), the family dynamic, and even Lois herself were going away as we knew them regardless of who wrote the books. The edict seems to have been to get Jon to young adult age by 5G. That would've required an age up before 5G anyway because Jon was only 10. From what I understand, Bendis floated the idea of Jon linking up with the Legion and starting the United Planets before becoming full-on Superman if it's already a destination he had to hit.
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  15. #8400

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    Even so, someone else could have handled any possible age up in a better way than the truly boneheaded and highly problematic way Bendis handled it.
    Last edited by OpaqueGiraffe17; 04-19-2020 at 09:52 AM.

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