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  1. #9181
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    I hate to tell you man, but that kind of arguing over continuity is the norm. Spider-Man fans are still to this day arguing over the marriage and whether it should come back. As for Clark himself there were lots of arguments over whether he should reveal his secret identity or not. The current incarnation isn’t really the John Byrne Superman, and hasn’t been for a long time. Our current setup is more like the Busiek/Johns Post-Infinite Crisis guy. Just like how the Pre-Crisis version could be divided into different “Ages” I consider there to be two Post-Crisis versions: Byrne and Johns/Busiek.

    The argument over the costume is really an argument about the character’s core: is he outdated or not and if he is, what kind of revamp does he need?
    He really hasn't been Byrne's Superman since right around 2000 and the Loeb/Kelly run. They tried to retcon huge chunks of Byrne's vision of Krypton. It just took a couple years until Man Of Steel got retconned away officially,although it's safe to say anything after and including EXILE is back in continuity after the merger in REBIRTH. at least on a surface level. If one goes in too deeply and scrutinizes the lose continuity threads left from taking Byrne's run out of the equation then it all unravels.
    When it comes to comics,one person's "fan-service" is another persons personal cannon. So by definition it's ALL fan service. Aren't we ALL fans?
    SUPERMAN is the greatest fictional character ever created.

  2. #9182
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Honestly, I don't think there's anything left to unravel. This continuity is completely and utterly unraveled. You can't put this back together. One reason I keep advocating that if they're going to stick with this continuity, at the very least leave the past in the past and stop trying to fix it. Death Metal isn't going to fix it any more than the numerous past attempts have; it can't be fixed. You can just move forward and acknowledge the foundation falls apart with a gust of wind so don't blow on it anymore.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 11-01-2020 at 01:30 PM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

  3. #9183
    Phantom Zone Escapee manofsteel1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Honestly, I don't think there's anything left to unravel. This continuity is completely and utterly unraveled. You can't put this back together. One reason I keep advocating that if they're going to stick with this continuity, at the very least leave the past in the past and stop trying to fix it. Death Metal isn't going to fix it any more than the numerous past attempts have; it can't be fixed. You can just move forward and acknowledge the foundation falls apart with a gust of wind so don't blow on it anymore.
    Very true. Again if you squint it sorta kinda looks solid but upon closer examination its constructed out of ramen noodles and sticky tac. It's been that way for probably 20 years really. They had a shot with the New 52,but DC screwed the pooch when they decided to reboot certain properties completely and leave others mostly intact.

    DC just needs to either completely reboot everything or just leave it as is and just move forward. For now it seems it's going to be the later for awhile but I expect within the next 5 years ,if DC is still publishing monthly books,we will see another half assed reboot .
    When it comes to comics,one person's "fan-service" is another persons personal cannon. So by definition it's ALL fan service. Aren't we ALL fans?
    SUPERMAN is the greatest fictional character ever created.

  4. #9184
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Absolutely. Its really that simple to me. You want to build a history that makes sense again? Reboot. Only option. If you're not willing to lose what you have, you just move on and stop worrying about the fact the past makes no sense. You just leave it alone as it exists. Those are the only two options in my mind.

    I still think that--ironically enough considering the Didio regime is full of instances of them trying to have their cake and eat it too to spectacular failure--they can have their cake and eat it too now in the way of new imprints, that would give lots of wiggle room as to how they treat their main line. But as much as I think it makes sense, as much as I think it should happen, there's no indication that it is, so I'm just operating with the age old idea now that the main line will continue to be all there is by and large.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 11-02-2020 at 12:47 PM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

  5. #9185
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    If you're waiting for a slew of announcements about new digital and OGN books, you're gonna have to wait a little bit longer. Assuming this new directive they talked about took effect around the same time as the "bloodbath" and wasn't in development beforehand without us hearing about it, they're not gonna have anything ready to talk about publicly for a little while yet. I'm really hoping the main canon continues to move forward instead of resetting back to the classic status quo, providing new story options while the OGN's and digital series can explore those classic settings and do whatever odd, strange Elseworlds type tales they want.

    But I agree overall; either reboot the continuity or leave it as it is and just move forward instead of always looking back. Either option, quite frankly, sucks. Reboots never fix problems and only add to them, and ignoring the clusterf*ck they've turned their continuity into is far from satisfying.

    I think the best we're likely to get is a soft "it all happened" approach where inconsistencies are written off as memories of altered timelines the characters remember, and what "really" happened is kept vague and inconsequential. But honestly, I'm about done with ongoings anyway. At this point I'd rather get a high quality self-contained story that can play by its own rules, than watch creators try to square their story with the quagmire that continuity has become.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  6. #9186
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Yeah, when it comes to potential plans with digital, OGN etc, I'm hopeful but I realize I'm going to have to wait before even whispers at this point. And even then who the heck knows what they decide to do in reality. I have to be careful not to let our ideas of what would be really cool to do make me start counting on that actually happening.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

  7. #9187
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Brother, I think we've both learned by this point that if we say "Man, this is a good idea, DC should do something like this and here's all the reasons and precedent to support it!" then DC will do the exact opposite.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  8. #9188
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    As long as DC is specific about certain key events like the Kents surviving or dying, and the general arc of his career, I think they'll be fine with mushy continuity. It really only needs to be clear if they are referencing back to it in an interesting way.

    Jimmy Olsen did a good job of respecting the spirit of the past Jimmy Olsen adventures, while also telling their own story that rewrote what had come before.

    In general, I like the idea that if an idea is good, it sticks around, but if it's bad, just forget about it and move on. Currently, the idea of Jimmy being the idiot savant of Metropolis's wealthiest family works.

    As soon as it doesn't, have him lose all his money and make him poor again.

  9. #9189
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    As long as DC is specific about certain key events like the Kents surviving or dying, and the general arc of his career, I think they'll be fine with mushy continuity. It really only needs to be clear if they are referencing back to it in an interesting way.

    Jimmy Olsen did a good job of respecting the spirit of the past Jimmy Olsen adventures, while also telling their own story that rewrote what had come before.

    In general, I like the idea that if an idea is good, it sticks around, but if it's bad, just forget about it and move on. Currently, the idea of Jimmy being the idiot savant of Metropolis's wealthiest family works.

    As soon as it doesn't, have him lose all his money and make him poor again.
    Sometimes though ideas don’t get dropped because they’re bad. They get dropped because... they’re forgotten. Or because “not my”. Granted most writers don’t do squat with Jimmy and Fraction’s mini is the best and most interesting thing that’s been done with him in forever, so hopefully it sticks.

  10. #9190
    Astonishing Member LordUltimus's Avatar
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    So did anyone read the last YJ issue?

  11. #9191
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordUltimus View Post
    So did anyone read the last YJ issue?
    Did stuff actually happen?

  12. #9192
    Astonishing Member Blue22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Did stuff actually happen?
    Not particularly. They called it a thrilling conclusion but it was anything but that. I wish I could say I was sad to see this series end...But I'm not. Conner, Cassie, Bart, and Tim deserve better than this. Say what you will about their time under Johns, but at the very least, it wasn't boring :/

    Meanwhile, this book felt like it was on life support as early back as the third or fourth issue. I just hope nobody at DC blames the characters for this. It's not their fault. Put them in something else. Revive the series with a different writer. Do anything to show that Tim's generation still has promise.
    Last edited by Blue22; 11-03-2020 at 11:16 AM.

  13. #9193
    Astonishing Member Journey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue22 View Post
    Not particularly. They called it a thrilling conclusion but it was anything but that. I wish I could say I was sad to see this series end...But I'm not. Conner, Cassie, Bart, and Tim deserve better than this. Say what you will about their time under Johns, but at the very least, it wasn't boring :/

    Meanwhile, this book felt like it was on life support as early back as the third or fourth issue. I just hope nobody at DC blames the characters for this. It's not their fault. Put them in something else. Revive the series with a different writer. Do anything to show that Tim's generation still has promise.
    This is a prime example of Bendis being a hit or miss hack hopefully DC sees that.

  14. #9194
    The Superior One Celgress's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    This is a prime example of Bendis being a hit or miss hack hopefully DC sees that.
    I don't know if I completely agree. That said, I think it's abundantly clear Bendis should be kept far away from Cosmic Level characters instead he should focus on Street Level characters (his best work was creating Miles Morales & co., IMO).
    "So you've come to the end now alive but dead inside."

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