Official : Bendis gets both books

[manwhohaseverything]

Sure, literally anything is possible, but I'm talking specifically about the run we are actually in right now.



That's not really what I'd call a "neat bow", though. It's just an active do-over. That has no thematic companionship with the story at had: a story of consequences for action. So while a team down the line could pluck kid Jon out of time and get an do-over while keep teen Jon to or whatever, that doesn't mean it doesn't actively fly in the face of the point behind the story choices in the first place. Thus, it's anything but a "neat bow" in my opinion, and I'm sure that's not something that really bothers the people who just want kid Jon back, so it's whatever.



They showed no indication of not appreciating their time with their son at any point, so I wouldn't understand the sentiment you're insinuating.



Why? They'd have their second chance at it. Honestly, what would Clark and Lois bringing up a younger version of Jon while he's still very much alive and well say to him about his parents? It's kind of messed up, honestly. This kid lives years in space adhering to their teaching at every moment, makes his way home on his own, and--as Bendis specifically said--is extremely proud of everything he's done, but his parents said "nah kiddo, we want a do-over." I'd imagine he'd feel pretty awful.

I was talking about the end of the arc, run or story. I mean, i was saying parents can sometimes take for granted how fast their children can grow up and how little time they have with them. So, Clark and Lois can have new outlook and appreciation for kid jon, like we fans do. It's like you don't know the true value of something until it's gone.
I am not saying they are going to be bringing up a young version. But, their version of kid jon is still space. This jon is from another timeline in hypertime that can branch of with jon being trapped in black hole. Future Jon thinks he is from this timeline. He begins to realise that he is not. So, he feels it is his responsibility to save kid jon from whatever future jon went through. So he goes and saves him. Resulting in a branch of new timeline in hypertime. Where Jon was saved. And future jon may leave to go to his timeline like future trunks did or legion. They could even have a story were future Jon faces of Jor el. Who has completey destroyed everything by causing a war, and jon will stop it all as superman. Kid Jon can also begin to realise that his future self doesn't have to cause destruction of a city or be uncontrollable danger to the society . That he could become a cool superman.

[Superlad93]

So even if Bendis does go out of his way to establish that Jon can’t go back to the way he was, if DC wants him to be 11 again he will be.

That's 100% true. That's also 100% true about literally anything in comics. If DC wanted to breakup Lois and Clark tomorrow, we could counter with as many story reasons and pop culture reasons why they shouldn't, they could simply do it, and that'd be the long and short of it.

That's why talking about Superman after Bendis seems like a moot conversation right now to me because literally anything could happen. But in the context of Bendis' run, Lois and Clark either getting a do-over with kid Jon in any way is totally at odds with the very mission statement of the story surrounding Jon right now.

[Superlad93]

I was talking about the end of the arc or run.

I understood, and I stand by what I said.

So, Clark and Lois can have new outlook and appreciation for kid jon, like we fans do. It's like you don't know the true value of something until it's gone.

But they did value their son greatly at every turn. Nearly everything they did was in service of him. Arbitrarily saying "value him even more" when we're talking about Lois and Clark doesn't quite make sense.

I am not saying they are going to be bringing up a young version. But, their version of kid jon is still space.

I know what you're saying, and my point still stands.

This jon is from another timeline in hypertime that can branch of with jon being trapped in black hole. Future Jon thinks he is from this timeline. He begins to realise that he is not. So, he feels it is his responsibility to save kid jon from whatever future jon went through. So he goes and saves him. Resulting in a branch of new timeline in hypertime. Where Jon was saved. And future jon may leave to go to his timeline or legion. Kid Jon can also begin to realise that his future self doesn't have to cause destruction of a city or be uncontrollable danger to the society . That he could become a cool superman.

That sounds like a theory that would make the emotional crux of this whole arc/run totally moot. That also sounds like it's completely at odds with the fact that Bendis said "Superman has a lot of near misses" and this would be something that was real and an actual tragedy.

Again, totally fine if this is what you hope happens after Bendis leaves or whatever, but let me just say this: reasonable, effective, and impactful tragedy or emotional strife that steps outside of the conventional character fridging, or bodily harm, or turn to evil is so genuinely rare in comics. It's even more rare when the character whom the tragedy or emotional strife is centered around still has a voice and opinion to contribute. And it's basically unheard of in comics to have said character remain a force for optimism and good, and want to continue their relationship with their family post-tragedy like Bendis has implied.

We just never see that in comics, so I'd personally very much like to see what more creators can add to this. You don't have to share this opinion, and I'm not devaluing yours. I'm just explaining where I'm at right now.

[manwhohaseverything]

I understood, and I stand by what I said.



But they did value their son greatly at every turn. Nearly everything they did was in service of him. Arbitrarily saying "value him even more" when we're talking about Lois and Clark doesn't quite make sense.



I know what you're saying, and my point still stands.



That sounds like a theory that would make the emotional crux of this whole arc/run totally moot. That also sounds like it's completely at odds with the fact that Bendis said "Superman has a lot of near misses" and this would be something that was real and an actual tragedy.

Again, totally fine if this is what you hope happens after Bendis leaves or whatever, but let me just say this: reasonable, effective, and impactful tragedy or emotional strife that steps outside of the conventional character fridging, or bodily harm, or turn to evil is so genuinely rare in comics. It's even more rare when the character whom the tragedy or emotional strife is centered around still has a voice and opinion to contribute. And it's basically unheard of in comics to have said character remain a force for optimism and good, and want to continue their relationship with their family post-tragedy like Bendis has implied.

We just never see that in comics, so I'd personally very much like to see what more creators can add to this. You don't have to share this opinion, and I'm not devaluing yours. I'm just explaining where I'm at right now.

How would it loose the impact of tragedy for future Jon?Future trunks arc is the one of the best tragedies in Dragon ball history. Clois does, but still,They might not have realised their boy could grow up faster than they could blink. Clois will still feel the loss of their son in the meantime. Future jon will still be their son.heck!they could have it like, the war started by Jor el in that time killed clois in that timeline. So, both jon will only have this superman to call father.
Edit-And the tragedy thing cannot last forever for Clark. They will soon just forget about it anyway. I don't this is going to be "the return of red hood" like arc for Superman. Where it will be, like it was one of the huge moments for batman and his books continuity . So eventually this will also come to an end.

[Superlad93]

How would it loose the impact of tragedy for future Jon?

It would no longer be a tragedy that they'd have to live with and get past just off the strength of being a great family. It would be yet another "near miss" that was done-over rather than lived with and dealt with. That's not a tragedy for the family, but rather a cautionary tale at the very most.

Future trunks arc is the one of the best tragedies in Dragon ball history.

This isn't future Trunks. This Jon isn't from the future or another time line like future Trunks. And future Trunk's story was only a tragedy to him and the people in his time line, but for everyone in the main time line it was a cautionary tale and not a tragedy because it literally didn't happen to them.

Clois does, but still,They might not have realised their boy could grow up faster than they could blink.

There were literally moments in the past run where Clark laments about how fast Jon is growing up. This is something already expressed on the page.

[manwhohaseverything]

It would no longer be a tragedy that they'd have to live with and get past just off the strength of being a great family. It would be yet another "near miss" that was done-over rather than lived with and dealt with. That's not a tragedy for the family, but rather a cautionary tale at the very most.

This isn't future Trunks. This Jon isn't from the future or another time line like future Trunks. And future Trunk's story was only a tragedy to him and the people in his time line, but for everyone in the main time line it was a cautionary tale and not a tragedy because it literally didn't happen to them.

They do have to live with it,in the meantime.They will be getting past it, together in meantime as well.They don't know that their son is out their. For all they know this is Jon.

You don't know that. It could still be future Jon. I mean, We are both just speculating here.

Quite frankly, I don't feel like the tragedy thing will be emphasised or given the importance it is needs. So, i believe it is not going to stick, like the "return of red hood" did stick. If the tragedy thing was so important then, jon will have issues. Which is clearly not what is being focused on. He would want to blame things and have underlying resentments towards himself and his parent. They wouldn't be able to just go back to being a family. Jon will be too independent. He would want space. Not to mention, the fact that clois is basically a stranger to him. As, a kid you have a perception of your parents. But, after meeting them a years later, you realise, You hardly knew them.For clois as well Jon, is a stranger.

It depends on were you stand. Who's narrative the creator is expanding on.future Jon is also a "Superman" . For Trunks and his whole world, it was and is a tragedy. And now after everything the world had went through. It got erased.for, a lot of future trunks arc he was the protagonist and the one who's perspective mattered. He was literally the one who cut zamasu in half. So, yeah! it was not about Goku. This could be not about Clark. I mean, Clark will be the mentor figure or support.

And bendis has not made Clois do that.Has he?
Which issue in tomasi's run. I don't remember it. Sure, Clark might have in a general and casual sense. But not in a real sense. And realise the meaning of "our boy is growing up" and impact of it will have on them.

[rpmaluki]

This Jon travelled through space for seven years trying to get back home why would he suddenly want his independence from his folks when he hasn't seen them for so long? He was worried about his mom making it home but now you're suggesting he'd be okay being away from her? That doesn't really make sense with what little we've seen forget what Bendis himself is saying.

[Miles To Go]

Why would anyone want him to return to it and lose the troves of stories than can now be developed from what bendis is doing with teen Jon is beyond me...

Korath, your bias towards kid Jon has been apparent for a long time and it frankly makes for unpleasant reading. This amount of bitterness just isn't healthy. You insist your opinion that Kid Jon is wasted potential is somehow regarded as universal consensus and it simply isn't.

[manwhohaseverything]

This Jon travelled through space for seven years trying to get back home why would he suddenly want his independence from his folks when he hasn't seen them for so long? He was worried about his mom making it home but now you're suggesting he'd be okay being away from her? That doesn't really make sense with what little we've seen forget what Bendis himself is saying.

I said he will be too independent. It won't be like Jon would need them fo everything or anything for that matter. He would need space because being with them will be too hard and awkward. living with a family after years of separation Is freaking hard. It is like living with a stranger,but weirder because they knew you once. Atleast, with a room mate or stranger there is non of that baggage.Jon,coming back to someone who can deal with jor el's nonsense is great. But, i don't care for the idea that everything will peachy between them without any trouble. Jon should have changes in tastes among other things. Which is also what i am looking forward to when he meets Damian again. But, i don't see them splitting up damian-jon or the family.
Honestly, it is also confusing to me. You want tragedy. But you don't want the weight of the tragedy. Then what is the point of tragedy. This will just be a gimmick.
So For me, it is simple. if tragedy is what i get. i want the protagonists to feel the weight of it. Go all shakespearean on it, as much as a comic creator is capable of.
If not, deage him later after everthing is done (which i feel is going to happen, regardless. Hey! That is just me).
Edit-Regardless of that Jon returned from War(during his formative years). Sure, he has his old personality. But, should have the after effects of that.

[HeroVladimir93]

Apart from the way Rogol Zaar and Jor-El have been handled, I've been enjoying the Bendis era so far. There is always room for improvement, but I believe the Superman comics are in a good place right now. The best thing I can say about Bendis is that he gave Superman a true character arc and genuine emotional conflict during the first six issues of Superman; the title character was always the star of the show and he didn't have to share the spotlight with anyone. Don't get me wrong, Superman was fine during the Jurgens/Tomasi era but I feel the stories in that era focused on fast-paced thrills and a sense of adventure over emotionally deep stories and nuanced character development.

[DragonPiece]

Random thing I saw somewhere else(4chan), Naomi is 17...and Jon is now 17...wonder if Bendis is setting up a love angle there.

[Superlad93]

Random thing I saw somewhere else(4chan), Naomi is 17...and Jon is now 17...wonder if Bendis is setting up a love angle there.

I noticed the same thing actually. My mind didn't go "love angle" but it's possible. He could be the Luke to her Jessica. A new character that Bendis made up getting together with an older character that Bendis has taken a specific liking to. She's also go an obsession with Superman. I'm not putting much stock into it--for various reasons--but I can't say it's not possible.

I think it'd be pretty cool if they at least met at some point.

I wonder what the age cap for Wonder Comics characters are? 18? Super early 20s even?

[Sam]

Random thing I saw somewhere else(4chan), Naomi is 17...and Jon is now 17...wonder if Bendis is setting up a love angle there.

Or that's the only age Bendis uses for teenagers.

[Superlad93]

Or that's the only age Bendis uses for teenagers.

Miles was 13 to 15 for most of his comics run before Secret Wars. Riri was around 14 or 15 when she was created. Peter was about 15 or 16 in Ultimate Spider-Man.

No snark intended, mind you. Just pointing it out in case you or anyone weren't familiar with that sort of thing in his Marvel work.

[Miles To Go]

Major restructuring apparently going on at DC

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2019/01...restructuring/