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  1. #7591
    Extraordinary Member DragonPiece's Avatar
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    I really hope Bendis can deliver on Superman 18, I'm sure people will immediatly hate on the issue because it's sure there to involve a lot of dialogue and "bendis speak", but I have a feeling it'll pack a lot of emotion. Dealing with the lose of 2 fathers and your son going away definitely can change someone's perspective.

  2. #7592
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonPiece View Post
    I really hope Bendis can deliver on Superman 18, I'm sure people will immediatly hate on the issue because it's sure there to involve a lot of dialogue and "bendis speak", but I have a feeling it'll pack a lot of emotion. Dealing with the lose of 2 fathers and your son going away definitely can change someone's perspective.
    Did you like issue 17? I think that’s the strongest indicator as to how you’ll feel about issue 18. Reis is going to draw the hell out of it regardless, you see those panels Bendis posted on Instagram? Gorgeous.

  3. #7593
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Really, really dug these parts in the interview:

    "Superman’s frustration with his relationship with his father was how many lies were surrounded by his father’s legacy — some of which were by his father’s own hand; some of them weren’t[..]And when his father passes, he realizes that Clark Kent is something he’s deeply proud of. And it isn’t at all part of whatever Jor-El was doing. Although most of Jor-El’s lies were not good ones, a good one was Superman. It feels like one of Jor-El’s lies to him. Right? It’s not, but he can’t help it. It feels like it’s the first one in a long line of lies that brought Jor-El where he ended up."

    and

    "Things that you need when you’re a young man are not the same things you need when you’re a grown man."

    and

    "When someone reveals something about themselves, you kind of look at them differently, you think about them differently, and you know… We’ve had this in the real world where people own their truth, and you’re like — you want to celebrate them from the top of the tallest building. It’s so exciting. So there’s going to be a lot of people who are so excited that this hero they love is owning their moment, and there’s other people who are just going to be horrified by it."

    and

    "Literally … some villains become heroes, some just flat-out give it up, others have major changes, others get livid — it’s a range of reaction, some of which was deeply surprising, even to us. And that’s the ones we’re very excited to show you. There’s one Superman villain who has a massive change of heart. And from that moment, we came up with something for them that is so interesting that — oh, we’re so excited to show it to you, and I will point it out when it’s time."

    ____________

    More than anything I was looking for Bendis to not die on the "social media secret identities" hill, and to go to the far stronger argument of "there are people in the real world who own their truth for all to see, and they let the chips fall where they may" and "people with substantial power lie all the time". He addressed both perfectly. Heck, I didn't even catch the fact that, yeah, Clark's whole frustrating with his dad, and the reason Krypton is gone is because people in power didn't feel like being honest. And retroactively that line in issue 13 where Jor-El basically says "your Justice League does the same thing" and what Clark musters up is the equivalent to "NUH UH!!" This is the put your money where your mouth is this moment, and it's also him leading by example to stop what happened on Krypton from happening again. So far, on the idea and thematic side at least, this strong stuff.
    "Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe. And that hole will become a path for those that follow after us. The dreams of those who have fallen. The hopes of those who will follow. Those two sets of dreams weave together into a double helix, drilling a path towards tomorrow. THAT's Tengen Toppa! THAT'S Gurren Lagann! MY DRILL IS THE DRILL THAT CREATES THE HEAVENS!" - The Digger

    We walk on the path to Secher Nbiw. Though hard fought, we walk the Golden Path.

  4. #7594
    Fantastic Member Stick Figure's Avatar
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    Great interview!!! Love that Bendis has a strong vision for the character and doesn’t want to do more of what came before. He really seems to be dealing with Superman losing a planet means. The loss actually shapes how he goes about his life. Brilliant stuff!!

  5. #7595
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Revealing his ID with a press conference reminds me strongly of the Spidey reveal during Civil War. Let’s hope this has a better ending lol.

  6. #7596
    Ultimate Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Revealing his ID with a press conference reminds me strongly of the Spidey reveal during Civil War. Let’s hope this has a better ending lol.
    Here's how it goes down;
    Clark soon goes bald after taking office. Meanwhile Jon comes back, being a carbon copy of his dad now, including appearance (since Bendis already threw away his old personality). Jon gains the nickname "Clark", saves Lois more and more, Clark gets called "Prez Lex," because he's a farmboy and journalist, not a political leader. Reboot happens, Clark becomes evil dad, Jon and Lois date, and "Lois was never Jon's mother!" in it.

  7. #7597
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Sorry, still not buying it. Superman/Clark Kent was designed as a grown man when his creators gave him the attributes that would go on to make him a worldwide icon. The "things you need when you're a young man aren't what you need when you're a grown man" excuse is not applicable and a terrible excuse. None of us get to rewrite history, its not as if Superboy was created first or something. The concept was always that of a grown ass man, his exact age pretty irrelevant, and he was complete with secret I.D. then and always.

    This is forced evolution in that all the supposed changes making this necessary were contrived specifically to create the excuse to do this. So it doesn't fly as natural, doesn't fly as organic. Its destruction more than anything else.

    But in the end the joke is on me. I was really buying into those early interviews. Knowing it was all leading to this and 5G? What can I say other than I was hoodwinked, bamboozled, led astray, run amok.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 11-14-2019 at 07:39 PM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

  8. #7598
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    None of us get to rewrite history, its not as if Superboy was created first or something. The concept was always that of a grown ass man, his exact age pretty irrelevant, and he was complete with secret I.D. then and always.
    C'mon dude, he's obviously not speaking from a publication history standpoint. He's talking about Clark, the character, being younger and in a far different place in just about every aspect of his life when he started out as Superman. He's been married over 10 years, regained and lost his biological dad while learning troubling secrets about him, sent his son off to college, and witnessed the birth of something that'll ripple out into real change on a galactic scale for generations to come.

    That's just not the same dude he started out as. Heck, you've even complained as much, and thus basically admitted it, right? I think it's more than valid within context.
    Last edited by Superlad93; 11-14-2019 at 10:09 PM.
    "Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe. And that hole will become a path for those that follow after us. The dreams of those who have fallen. The hopes of those who will follow. Those two sets of dreams weave together into a double helix, drilling a path towards tomorrow. THAT's Tengen Toppa! THAT'S Gurren Lagann! MY DRILL IS THE DRILL THAT CREATES THE HEAVENS!" - The Digger

    We walk on the path to Secher Nbiw. Though hard fought, we walk the Golden Path.

  9. #7599
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    I am talking about Clark the character. Clark from the very start and throughout all his years and growth, the secret ID has always been a key and necessary side to the very concept of character. And throughout all that time, nothing organically changed, even through reboots and all the way up to his son (all of which are filled with contrivances in their own right but I grant), to the point where this made sense or was a necessary step. It was forced changes over the past year to put the pieces in place to do it. He never grew out of it as a maturing man like Bendis is trying to perpetuate in interviews. He's being forced out of it by a year's worth of gimmicks. That's not organic evolution and its a disingenuous talking point to boot, because any supposed growth that led to this was entirely forced and contrived over a very brief period.

    Now to be completely fair once upon a time I supported the idea of a "switcheroo" of sorts between what the public knew about the Clark and Lois dynamic and their son. And admittedly, that would have been far from organic growth either, I'm not pretending that would have been any more natural, as it was still based upon the now infamous age-up. But I was more open to something like that because at the very least it didn't destroy a key piece of what makes the guy Superman. Turned it on its head, but kept it nonetheless. Its that key aspect that's making me be so harsh here but its so monumentally important in my opinion that I think the harshness is warranted. That and again having a general idea what's coming which I consider even more of a cardinal sin. Unless all inside scoops are just staggeringly wrong, but that looks more unlikely all the time.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 11-14-2019 at 11:02 PM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

  10. #7600
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    I think that it is a welcome change. Not just because the concept of the secret identity was created for comic books which were even more simplistic than they are now.
    Bendis is simply applying the rule well expressed by Morrison and Scott Snyder (as far as I remember) regarding Batman, that is dealing with Superman as if he was a creator-owned character. Something which - thankfully - happened with Batman a lot of times, but rarely happened with Superman.
    Thinking back about the latest 10, maybe 15 years, I don't think that we are losing much. There aren't many stories where the secret ID plays a central role, or even REALLY makes sense. I don't know what the in-story motivations for the change will be, but frankly, isn't Bendis right when he says that secret IDs are becoming a more and more outdated concept? There aren't many superheroes who still use it. Of course, most of them are Marvel, but there are characters like Wally West for whom the secret ID was an outdated concept twenty years ago, before Geoff Johns decided to OMD-ize it.
    It's all in the execution, but I seriously think that there are a lot of potential story opportunities from this change. Heck, even Jon could FINALLY have a purpose as a character.
    Educational town, Rolemodel city and Moralofthestory land are the places where good comics go to die.

    DC writers and editors looked up and shouted "Save us!"
    And Alan Moore looked down and whispered "No."

    I'm kinda surprised Snyder didn't want Superman to watch Lois and Bruce conceive their love child. All the while singing the "Na na na na na na Batman!" theme song - Robotman, 03/06/2021

  11. #7601
    Extraordinary Member DragonPiece's Avatar
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    Bendis officially announced levithan dawn on his Instagram. Didn't say if it was a one shot or a mini series. https://www.instagram.com/p/B43PcIFh...=1w3alteueveou


    Same cast as the levithan book, hope DC gives a official announcement with more details.

  12. #7602
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Superman piece is broken. Is that supposed to be symbolic? I am beginning to think leviathan is being setup as an opponent for jon and 5G to deal with.

  13. #7603
    Astonishing Member Yoda's Avatar
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    It will, like everything else, come down to the execution.

    On the one hand, they have a road map for it being terribly executed in the original Truth story line, and seem to be cognizant of the issues that that story line created and how contrived it all was to begin with, so I'm somewhat optimistic that this is going to be handled well. There's no contrived marketing, they are making the decision Clark's and Clark's alone and even seem to be shying away from what I thought the set up for it would be. It appears likely that the in story ramifications will similarly be better thought out and not as contrived. This seems to be something Bendis has thought out considerably, and from the Rucka WB interview is something that he feels is important to do. The way it's going to be executed seems, now, to be pretty well thought out.

    On the other hand, Bendis whole run has been really interesting ideas that he seems to be rushing through without building up or fleshing out properly. I think this entire run has suffered in one way or another from this and as much as I've liked a ton of the ideas he's had, the execution of many of those ideas has been lacking - Jor El's reappearance, Lois's early actions, Jon's age up and time on Earth 3, to the whole back end of the Unity Saga. So I can easily see that this could be another one of those. The build up to it betrays the fact that this wasn't the original plan, the solicits were changed last minute, Bendis more or less admitted outright this wasn't how he had planned things, and it's implied heavily in Rucka's WB interview as well that this was a very recent decision (that even Rucka seems kinda iffy on). So any I'm skeptical of how it's all going to shake out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    More than anything I was looking for Bendis to not die on the "social media secret identities" hill, and to go to the far stronger argument of "there are people in the real world who own their truth for all to see, and they let the chips fall where they may" and "people with substantial power lie all the time". He addressed both perfectly. Heck, I didn't even catch the fact that, yeah, Clark's whole frustrating with his dad, and the reason Krypton is gone is because people in power didn't feel like being honest. And retroactively that line in issue 13 where Jor-El basically says "your Justice League does the same thing" and what Clark musters up is the equivalent to "NUH UH!!" This is the put your money where your mouth is this moment, and it's also him leading by example to stop what happened on Krypton from happening again. So far, on the idea and thematic side at least, this strong stuff.
    Yeah the social media side of it is definitely the weaker argument. I can definitely see that from his perspective most people use the anonymity of twitter handles to yell at him 24/7, so it can seem that way. I do really like it how he's characterized it as kind of the next phase of Clark's life. The way you're life and perspective changes from your early 20's through your 30's is completely drastic, adding in kids and how their aging changes things even further, it's hitting that dead center. Playing it off the Jor El stuff works for me as well. I've long thought that this whole run was centered on Clark needing to confront the way he has acted as Superman over the years needed to evolve. I had thought that would come in large part from Lois's book, and didn't think the ID was in play, but it's all still working along that same path I think. Clark has come to the realization that his old, somewhat passive, method of action isn't working as well as it could and things around him have evolved and his role has to evolve as well. The ID definitely plays into that like you've said and it looks like it's all going to play a part in that. This whole run has been about reestablishing Superman's relevance in the world of the DCU as much as it was his relevance as a character, and this is definitely another major step in that direction.

  14. #7604
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    Yes, I do think Bendis' entire run will be summed up as great ideas (except for one) where at times he couldn't stick the landing, at least for those who don't think it is/was a complete dumpster fire, like myself. At best I hope we can keep some of the stuff he's done, like the President Superman thing and I hope this version of "Truth" will infinitely improve on the last because I'm genuinely interested in the DCU's reaction to the reveal.
    Last edited by rpmaluki; 11-15-2019 at 06:35 AM.

  15. #7605
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    It will, like everything else, come down to the execution.

    On the one hand, they have a road map for it being terribly executed in the original Truth story line, and seem to be cognizant of the issues that that story line created and how contrived it all was to begin with, so I'm somewhat optimistic that this is going to be handled well. There's no contrived marketing, they are making the decision Clark's and Clark's alone and even seem to be shying away from what I thought the set up for it would be. It appears likely that the in story ramifications will similarly be better thought out and not as contrived. This seems to be something Bendis has thought out considerably, and from the Rucka WB interview is something that he feels is important to do. The way it's going to be executed seems, now, to be pretty well thought out.

    On the other hand, Bendis whole run has been really interesting ideas that he seems to be rushing through without building up or fleshing out properly. I think this entire run has suffered in one way or another from this and as much as I've liked a ton of the ideas he's had, the execution of many of those ideas has been lacking - Jor El's reappearance, Lois's early actions, Jon's age up and time on Earth 3, to the whole back end of the Unity Saga. So I can easily see that this could be another one of those. The build up to it betrays the fact that this wasn't the original plan, the solicits were changed last minute, Bendis more or less admitted outright this wasn't how he had planned things, and it's implied heavily in Rucka's WB interview as well that this was a very recent decision (that even Rucka seems kinda iffy on). So any I'm skeptical of how it's all going to shake out.
    I'm in total agreement here.

    Man, who ever thought that we'd be talking about a Bendis book and saying "it's moving too fast!"?

    But you're right, a lot of stuff has been rushed and I think that's part of why this run isn't working for some people. Take the whole "Clark and Lois let Jon go to space with gramps" thing. People are *still* bitching about that two years later. That's a decision that is perfectly in character for Clark and Lois but the conversation needed at least a full issue to play out if we were to really get the full swing of it. And that sort of thing has happened several times now.

    And Clark going public? That's......man, I'm with Sacred on how important that is. The Clark-Superman dynamic is where the true character is found and screwing with that.....it's hard to have any trust in DC with this; they've proven to be criminally incompetent and messing around with something as fundamental as the secret identity? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. But it does seem like Bendis is building this right (so far) so.....it might turn out okay?

    So, what is it that got changed? Bendis admitted that "what" wasn't the original plan? Are we talking about 5G here? Is that not a Bendis proposal?
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

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