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  1. #2071
    Extraordinary Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Do you have any numbers to back up that digital is still a small percentage of sales? I was under the impression that actual numbers for digital are not released publicly, so we have no idea how much of sales are digital, do we? Or have I been misinformed?
    Comichron has published some figures. Nothing for individual titles or anything, just total annual sales. And Comixology posts a weekly ranking, so we know what's selling (on Comixology, anyway).

    As I recall, and my memory is foggy (and I could also just be wrong) digital sales jumped by massive margins from 2011 to 2014. Something like 24 million sold in 2011 to 76 million in '14. Since then they've leveled off somewhere around 80 million, and even saw a minor dip a year or so ago. They're not selling as much as floppies are, which are on an upswing if it can be believed.

    But I have no idea how inclusive this information is. The Comixology numbers might factor in the DC and Marvel versions of the app, or it might not. It certainly wouldn't include stuff like kindle, and/or whatever other options are out there. Or distribution/storage expenses. And I don't recall how extensive the Comichron data is either, or what apps it tracks.

    Its not a lot of information to work with in any case.
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  2. #2072
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Comichron has published some figures. Nothing for individual titles or anything, just total annual sales. And Comixology posts a weekly ranking, so we know what's selling (on Comixology, anyway).

    As I recall, and my memory is foggy (and I could also just be wrong) digital sales jumped by massive margins from 2011 to 2014. Something like 24 million sold in 2011 to 76 million in '14. Since then they've leveled off somewhere around 80 million, and even saw a minor dip a year or so ago. They're not selling as much as floppies are, which are on an upswing if it can be believed.

    But I have no idea how inclusive this information is. The Comixology numbers might factor in the DC and Marvel versions of the app, or it might not. It certainly wouldn't include stuff like kindle, and/or whatever other options are out there. Or distribution/storage expenses. And I don't recall how extensive the Comichron data is either, or what apps it tracks.

    Its not a lot of information to work with in any case.
    Yeah, that's the issue I have been having figuring out how much of the current readership is reading digital and trades vs. monthly 22-pagers. There's simply not enough numbers out there to accurately figure it out.

  3. #2073
    Extraordinary Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Yeah, that's the issue I have been having figuring out how much of the current readership is reading digital and trades vs. monthly 22-pagers. There's simply not enough numbers out there to accurately figure it out.
    There really isn't.

    I'd love to see some actual accounting though. How much are these things selling, how much is it costing to distribute and produce them, all that. I want to know how much actual profit, after expenses, are being generated, and under what formats.

    Its information that I don't need to know as a fan (because really, that's not our business) but as a business student I'm very curious.
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  4. #2074
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    There really isn't.

    I'd love to see some actual accounting though. How much are these things selling, how much is it costing to distribute and produce them, all that. I want to know how much actual profit, after expenses, are being generated, and under what formats.

    Its information that I don't need to know as a fan (because really, that's not our business) but as a business student I'm very curious.
    From a certain standpoint, as fans we do 'kinda' need to know - if for no other reason than to know if digital sales is what's keeping a certain book afloat. But that'd be about it.

    From the sounds of things, it's almost like digital sales are being handled the way album sales were before the RIAA: They'd list these big numbers, but wouldn't keep paperwork properly so they wouldn't have to pay as much royalties to artists. It was a pretty common practice, actually - and why it's so hard to find, for instance, Elvis Presley's sales figures before 1958.
    Last edited by JAK; 05-11-2018 at 09:35 AM.
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  5. #2075
    Extraordinary Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAK View Post
    From a certain standpoint, as fans we do 'kinda' need to know - if for no other reason than to know if digital sales is what's keeping a certain book afloat. But that'd be about it.
    You know, Im not convinced we even *need* to know that much. I think we tend to look at sales figures as a far more simple construct than they are. Sales figures are great, but it doesn't cover how much the creative teams were paid, or distribution costs, internal expectations and projections, or any of that. So we don't really know how a book is actually doing even when we have sales numbers. And I think maybe it adds to the sense of fan entitlement too.

    I like having access to the sales data, but I'm not sure if I'd say fans need it. But then, I'm a private person and would loathe the idea of having to share sales data for my company so its probably just personal bias.

    From the sounds of things, it's almost like digital sales are being handled the way album sales were before the RIAA: They'd list these big numbers, but wouldn't keep paperwork properly so they wouldn't have to pay as much royalties to artists. It was a pretty common practice, actually - and why it's so hard to find, for instance, Elvis Presley's sales figures before 1958.
    That's a good point. Maybe its something like that, though I didn't think creators usually got royalties for their work?
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  6. #2076
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    You know, Im not convinced we even *need* to know that much. I think we tend to look at sales figures as a far more simple construct than they are. Sales figures are great, but it doesn't cover how much the creative teams were paid, or distribution costs, internal expectations and projections, or any of that. So we don't really know how a book is actually doing even when we have sales numbers. And I think maybe it adds to the sense of fan entitlement too.

    I like having access to the sales data, but I'm not sure if I'd say fans need it. But then, I'm a private person and would loathe the idea of having to share sales data for my company so its probably just personal bias.
    Oh, certainly. And I agree, overall. Just noting that it'd be nice to know for books that are in danger of dropping. But other than that there's no reason.

    That's a good point. Maybe its something like that, though I didn't think creators usually got royalties for their work?
    They probably don't - but I do find the comparison interesting. Maybe the contracts don't technically count digital and they're covering their @$$? I'd think that's not the case, but I'm still fascinated as to why those numbers aren't shown while the paper ones are.
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  7. #2077
    Extraordinary Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAK View Post
    They probably don't - but I do find the comparison interesting. Maybe the contracts don't technically count digital and they're covering their @$$? I'd think that's not the case, but I'm still fascinated as to why those numbers aren't shown while the paper ones are.
    If I had to guess? I'd say that Diamond releases their sales figures to show they're profitable and flex some influence over the market. And there are multiple levels to the Diamond system; from customer to retailer to transportation to printers to Diamond itself to the publishers, so keeping track of everything makes more sense. You'd have to, to make sure everything ended up where it's supposed to.

    With Comixology, there's just the customer, Comixology, and the publisher. I'm sure the publishers get the raw data from Comixology, but without a big supply chain, that information doesn't have to be spread around as much. And this way, Comixology controls their PR. They dont have to react to news about the state of their sales, they can have control of the narrative. And it's also possible that this was done with retailers in mind too; publishers need to keep the brick and mortar's happy, and Comixology needs to keep the publishers happy.
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  8. #2078
    (formerly "Superman") JAK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    If I had to guess? I'd say that Diamond releases their sales figures to show they're profitable and flex some influence over the market. And there are multiple levels to the Diamond system; from customer to retailer to transportation to printers to Diamond itself to the publishers, so keeping track of everything makes more sense. You'd have to, to make sure everything ended up where it's supposed to.

    With Comixology, there's just the customer, Comixology, and the publisher. I'm sure the publishers get the raw data from Comixology, but without a big supply chain, that information doesn't have to be spread around as much. And this way, Comixology controls their PR. They dont have to react to news about the state of their sales, they can have control of the narrative. And it's also possible that this was done with retailers in mind too; publishers need to keep the brick and mortar's happy, and Comixology needs to keep the publishers happy.
    Those are some excellent points. And I'd agree that it *would* make sense on all sides from the business standpoint. It also serves another purpose; if stores lose a sales percentage and digital picks that up, stores might revolt/etc. This way, nobody sees anything and has no hard numbers to attack with.
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  9. #2079
    Extraordinary Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAK View Post
    Those are some excellent points. And I'd agree that it *would* make sense on all sides from the business standpoint. It also serves another purpose; if stores lose a sales percentage and digital picks that up, stores might revolt/etc. This way, nobody sees anything and has no hard numbers to attack with.
    Exactly. The less one hand knows about what the other is doing, the happier everyone will be.

    Diamond is choking the industry and has been for decades. Everyone knows it, including Diamond. The company seems unwilling or unable to change their distribution model, so the publishers have to find new alternatives if they want to survive. But there's no need to set different formats against each other if you don't have to. Retailers are worried enough, digital is a fledgling medium.....better for everyone to keep the numbers quiet.

    Hell, I dont even really like to compare sales figures anymore because Diamond's not really a great barometer for a book's health. We know some books do terribly through the direct market but do incredibly well in digital, or trade, or kindle, or Scholastic, or whatever. So just because a book isn't selling well with Diamond doesn't really mean a damn thing now.
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  10. #2080
    Astonishing Member DragonPiece's Avatar
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    New page from issue 2 of Man of Steel:

  11. #2081
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Looks great. Wonder if this is Hal and Superman's first meeting.
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  12. #2082
    Fantastic Member TruthAndJustice's Avatar
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    Doesn't look like it. Hal's wearing his 21st century costume.

  13. #2083
    Notorious M.O.S. Kuwagaton's Avatar
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    Wow, Sinclair gives his art a different feel. Wonder if he's also coloring Rude.

  14. #2084
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonPiece View Post
    New page from issue 2 of Man of Steel:
    Neat seeing classic Toyman back. Art feels very whimsical .

  15. #2085
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TruthAndJustice View Post
    Doesn't look like it. Hal's wearing his 21st century costume.
    Is his classic costume even in continuity anymore? I thought Johns' relaunch after Green Lantern Rebirth made the current look the standard GL costume and thus what Hal always has worn.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

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